Lease tact

[Hpacres440p]

My dad moved back to the area where he has land that has been in a "family deal" lease for the past 15 years arranged by his sister who has 1/3 share, and who doesn't make many of the payments for water access, taxes, etc.
dad is looking at end of life planning, so has paid for official survey, lawyer to do an actual division of the property, have a written lease, etc-stuff that should have been done a long time ago.
The lessee runs cattle, plants wheat and haygrazer, and had cleared a Bermuda field of mesquite at the start of the lease but the Bermuda is looking overgrazed and not good, in general.
I will eventually inherit the land that is dad's section. For those of you who lease, if an owner offered to purchase seed for legumes to help with regenerating the Bermuda (for example) would that be insulting or welcomed?
I'm looking long game. I know Bermuda is a nitrogen dependent grass, and that land was all cotton before it went to cattle. Across the road grass is no taller than 2" due to sheep overgrazing. I don't want that to happen. Central Texas…

 

[bird dog]

It would be welcomed for sure but legumes are expensive and not easy to establish in our area. Maybe a mixture of native grasses that require less inputs would be an alternative.

I bought a tract from a man that is considered the best grass man in our area. It was mostly Bermuda of various types. He took very good care of it for hay production. I do not put out the fertilizer he did and as a result the bermuda has declined. I do spray herbicide on it, rotate the cows, and don't over graze it so a lot of the native grasses have returned.

Yes it will not run as many cattle as when I first bought it but its not far from that and the cattle look just as good with the native blue stems, klein and others that have came back. There is even a bunch of switch grass come back along a levee area.

 

[Warren Allison]

My dad moved back to the area where he has land that has been in a "family deal" lease for the past 15 years arranged by his sister who has 1/3 share, and who doesn't make many of the payments for water access, taxes, etc.
dad is looking at end of life planning, so has paid for official survey, lawyer to do an actual division of the property, have a written lease, etc-stuff that should have been done a long time ago.
The lessee runs cattle, plants wheat and haygrazer, and had cleared a Bermuda field of mesquite at the start of the lease but the Bermuda is looking overgrazed and not good, in general.
I will eventually inherit the land that is dad's section. For those of you who lease, if an owner offered to purchase seed for legumes to help with regenerating the Bermuda (for example) would that be insulting or welcomed?
I'm looking long game. I know Bermuda is a nitrogen dependent grass, and that land was all cotton before it went to cattle. Across the road grass is no taller than 2" due to sheep overgrazing. I don't want that to happen. Central Texas…

I lease Bermuda hay fields, and I would love it if the owners helped with the maintenance. I would suggest you take soil samples, and send them in for analysis. Get the cost to fertilize it to specs, and then talk with him about helping him with that costs. It would be no more expensive than planting ;legumes, and you'd get results in a matter of days. Plus, he can spray for weeds and not have to worry about killing the clover or whatever legumes you would plant.

 

[Brute 23]

The problem is nothing can fix poor management. If they ran it in to the dirt, they probably don't care to manage it. Doubt you would want to invest with some one like that.

Bermuda just needs to be worked a little, fert, and rest and it will usually come back strong.

Get a better lease that protects the land like limits on the number of head, rotational grazing, mandatory fert, etc. Yall may have to adjust the lease price a little bit it will be better long term.

To answer the original question, not I would not want the owner to invest like that. It sounds messy and will likely end with them thinking I owe them some thing, or I'm not doing it right, etc. I like clearly defined arrangements.

 

[mwj]

Will they be able to keep the lease after you get the property? I would not put effort into the deal knowing that I would have to turn it back.

 

[Hpacres440p]

Will they be able to keep the lease after you get the property? I would not put effort into the deal knowing that I would have to turn it back.

The lease is annual, and my dad isn't super excited with how things are going, which is why he talked his sister into a written lease. That, and without a paper trail there could have been some squatter-type situation that could contest who actually owned the land once dad and sister pass.
I would like to use 10 acres or so for feeding out and raising some calves every year, but am fully aware that I don't have the time or equipment to do anything full-time unless I hit the lottery.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Legumes in that area are tough. Add to that a degree of overgrazing, which it seems you have, makes legumes an unlikely option for success, unless you wait until you have control of the livestock (yours) on your land. That being said, take a look at perennial peanut as a legume. I'm not saying it will work, but it is an option, in some cases, where other legumes aren't. It is planted from root cuttings though, not seed.

 

[Brute 23]

The lease is annual, and my dad isn't super excited with how things are going, which is why he talked his sister into a written lease. That, and without a paper trail there could have been some squatter-type situation that could contest who actually owned the land once dad and sister pass.
I would like to use 10 acres or so for feeding out and raising some calves every year, but am fully aware that I don't have the time or equipment to do anything full-time unless I hit the lottery.

One thing, on that, to your point, that will likely arise, that is a little off subject, is when it gets divided and your dad gets his own property tax bill, it will likely trigger yall having to fill out a form for the ag exemption. It's usually very simple but it may ask how many cattle, how much hay, if there is a lease, etc. It's nice to have a piece of paper, the lease, to go along with that info.

 

[Hpacres440p]

One thing, on that, to your point, that will likely arise, that is a little off subject, is when it gets divided and your dad gets his own property tax bill, it will likely trigger yall having to fill out a form for the ag exemption. It's usually very simple but it may ask how many cattle, how much hay, if there is a lease, etc. It's nice to have a piece of paper, the lease, to go along with that info.

It's already under Ag. The lessee has been completing the paperwork regarding activities up to this point, which also could have gone badly if he didn't do it on time. Leases on paper protect both sides.

 

[Hpacres440p]

Legumes in that area are tough. Add to that a degree of overgrazing, which it seems you have, makes legumes an unlikely option for success, unless you wait until you have control of the livestock (yours) on your land. That being said, take a look at perennial peanut as a legume. I'm not saying it will work, but it is an option, in some cases, where other legumes aren't. It is planted from root cuttings though, not seed.

To clarify-the neighbor is severely overgrazed. "Our" property is well used though and could use some diversity in plant life

 

[Brute 23]

It's already under Ag. The lessee has been completing the paperwork regarding activities up to this point, which also could have gone badly if he didn't do it on time. Leases on paper protect both sides.

Ya it just triggers you to have to re-fill out the forms usually, even if it is already under ag exemption.

If its undivided the taxes are likely (hopefully) being mailed to one family member and say one of the family members name like Joe Bob Et All. Then every one pays in for the taxes. Any paperwork will go to that one address. The property will have one property account nunber for the county. When yall split it, your dad will get his own account number which will trigger the form for that new account.

Hopefully your dad has been paying his taxes in and not another family member or the lessee. I have filled out the tax forms for people before but they received them, I filled in the info, and they turned them back in. As a lessee I should not be getting those forms directly and paying taxes and stuff.

Sounds like yall are on the right track though. We did the ame thing about 2 years ago. We had a property that was a de ent ways from the house that we didn't mess with a lot. An uncle ran cows and kind if ram rodded thing. Everything went down hill slowly until it was a mess. It wasn't all his fault because no one else payed enough attention until it was too late. Anyways, it got split up now and isn't I'm that mess. My parents then deeded it to my bother and I. We are in the process of leasing it to a guy about my age who is a neighbor and has some other neighbors all leased.

 

[Hpacres440p]

Yes, dad has been the one managing taxes since his folks passed. Lessee just completed forms when dad sent to him.