LBW and High Growth...Needing good advice

[East Caney]

What breed of bull has low birthweights with high weaning weights? I have mixed breed cows which makes it hard (I know), but any help is appreciated.

Second, if I'm going to buy the bull as a yearling, what traits do I look for when picking the bull out?

BTW - The cows are mostly medium framed cows with a couple having large frames...some hereford X, some angus X, most with brahman influence (1 strong).

 

[dun]

The first thing to deterine is what you're planning on doing with the calves. Market the steers and retain the heifers, market everything?
By looking for high weaning weights I'm assuming, alwasy dangerous, that you'll be marketing all of the calves. Will you be selling at the local sale barn, finished freezer beef, reatining ownership through the feedlot?
With all of that, there are generally relatively low BW and high weaning weight bulls available in nearly every breed.

dun

 

[LimiMan]

Limousin.... Heres one if you wanted to maybe AI a few cows..
http://limigene.com/lg/sire/sire.asp?rn ... 8&bull=317[/url]

 

[East Caney]

You're right. I do intend to market all calves. I'm paying the expenses out of pocket for a while. After a couple of years, I'm going to switch my herd to a particular breed. At that point, I will begin to retain replacements. I have 10 cows that are 3-5 years right now with one being a heifer, so I expect that they'll get me started with what I'm trying to do.

 

[hillbilly]

There are bulls of every breed that can fill that bill.
Learn to read EPD's and buy a bull that suits you.

hillbilly

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

May I suggest a good Murray Grey Bull for low birthweights and calves that will grow off well,and that are docile and easier to handle. ;-) :cboy:

 

[Aero]

any other shameless plugs?

the count is 2 out of 6 posts so far.

 

[Sevierite]

We've used several different breeds with our crossbred
cows...Hereford, Charolais, Limousine, Shorthorn, Santa
Gertudis and Angus. They all had their good and bad
points. Right now, we are using Angus. We never have
trouble selling angus based calves. Calving difficulty is
greatly reduced. The calves have no horns. Those are
a few of the pluses. I'm sure an Angus bull with high
yearling EPD's will help your cows wean off fast-growing
calves for the feeder market.
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[LimiMan]

Here check this link out, you might have to copy and paste.


http://www.nalf.org/programs/bottom_lin ... in%20nalf'

 

[la4angus]

For Calving Ease and High WW I would like to suggest using an Angus.

Your calves will be dehorned at conceptionThe calves are known to top most markets at weaning.

The cows are good mothers and docile. They will keep the coyotes and outlaw dogs away.

The calves as a rule are high graders and market toppers when finished.

 

[Texan]

.....what traits do I look for when picking the bull out?

As far as I'm concerned, the single most important trait to look for is the honest, reputable breeder. You find him or her, you can be completely ignorant of everything else you need to know and still get the bull that fits your needs.

As for breed, two kinds of calves sell good in your area. Blacks and Charolais crosses. If I were in your position, I'd go with a good polled Charolais bull. That's assuming that the "X" in your cows....

...hereford X, some angus X....

.....isn't Charolais. The modern Char bulls will give you acceptable birthweights in the low 80's or even lighter. I've had some that are too small. You'll love the growth and the buyers will love your calves.

Look for a bull with an actual bw in the 70's with an epd of 0 or -2 and you should be pleased with his calves from mature cows. I've had SimX heifers have Char calves with no problems.

You can go for another breed with the low bw bulls and get them down in the 50's but why not go ahead and get that extra 30 pounds if your cows can stand it? That's just $40 or $50 dollars already in the bank at today's prices.

Not a shameless plug, BTW. I don't sell bulls until they're used up, so I don't care what you buy. But I do practice what I preach. ;-)

 

[la4angus]

Read and study Texans comments. Finding an honest, reputable breeder to buy from is the most important thing to look for in purchasing bulls or any other cattle or livestock.

 

[Aero]

The modern Char bulls will give you acceptable birthweights in the low 80's or even lighter.

i understand the assumption, but pretty adventurous tell a guy what his actuals will be.

 

[Aero]

East Caney:
do you have a mature, seasoned herd or all first-calf heifers? in between?

this should be a consideration. i would hate to throw an average BW Charolais bull on a first-calf heifer of any unknown breed.

fyi - MARC data shows the cross-breed adjustment from Angus to Charolais being 10.0 lbs. meaning a +2.0 BW Charolais would be the same as using a +12.0 BW Angus.

 

[longhorn314]

Here's my 2 cents worth.I have had a Hereford,Santa Gertrudis,Charlois and presently Angus.You could not give me another Santa Gert bull And the Charlois bull had great calves but they were pretty big calves and I had to pull 5 or 6 of his calves.I kept him 2 breeding seasons and I would rather sleep peacefully with an Angus bull than worry about pulling calves.The hereford bull was fine to.But that is just my 2 cents worth,everyone may disagree.

 

[East Caney]

I certainly appreciate the advice you all are giving. There one first calf heifer in the bunch (brahman X). The rest are 3-5 years. I'll certainly take all your suggestions into consideration. It sounds like Angus may do well for what I want. I live 70 miles from the land and I do all my work on the weekends, so it would be scary for me to have to worry about pulling calves. A black angus bull w/ lbw would help lessen the chance of losing a cow, calf, or both. Right now, the black calves with Angus influence are selling well. Thanks for your advice. It's greatly appreciated.

You all suggested a reputable breeder. Is that to say that I should be looking for private treaty sales?

 

[msscamp]

any other shameless plugs?

the count is 2 out of 6 posts so far.

Yes, as a matter of fact there are. I would agree with Springer Farms. Murray Greys are noted for their low birth weights, rapid growth after they hit the ground, and docility. As we've raised them for nearly 30 years, I believe I know of whence I speak! ;-)

PS At the risk of being tiresome, they are also noted for their ability to finish on grass, their marbleing (sp?), and just being an excellent dining experience!

 

[Texan]

any other shameless plugs?

the count is 2 out of 6 posts so far.

Yes, as a matter of fact there are......

Msscamp, while we're on the subject of shameless plugs, I think we should count Aero's. Seems he inadvertently left something out of an earlier post:

fyi - MARC data shows the cross-breed adjustment from Angus to Charolais being 10.0 lbs. meaning a +2.0 BW Charolais would be the same as using a +12.0 BW Angus.

What about the rest of the story, Aero? The cross-breed adjustment for weaning weight? Since that adjustment for Charolais is 38.4 pounds, what exactly does that mean? I'm not really up on epd's, but does that mean that a Charolais with a +50 would be similar to an Angus with a +88?

You want to make a big deal about a 10 pound bigger calf? Out of mature cows that have a job to do? Whatever, but I think I'll just take that bigger calf and those 38 extra pounds at weaning (53 by yearling). And I'll add that extra weight to the extra growth from heterosis by using the Continental bull on those English X cows.

I'll multiply all those extra pounds by the number of calves I sell at weaning and then I'll multiply that by $1.20 or $1.30 per pound and just stick that extra money in my pocket. And never worry one minute about a mature cow having a long-bodied, 80 pound calf. They can do it in their sleep, so there's sure no use in me laying awake nights worrying over it.

 

[Texan]

...It sounds like Angus may do well for what I want...

You all suggested a reputable breeder. Is that to say that I should be looking for private treaty sales?

Although it wouldn't be my first choice, it sure is hard to go wrong with a good Angus bull. If I were in your position, I would PM Frankie and get her to give you some info on the ALOT sales at Mt. Pleasant. That should be close to you and there are also breeders in that Association that will work with you on a private treaty sale. I've seen bulls from several of those breeders and I think you'll be pleased.

 

[Scotty]

...It sounds like Angus may do well for what I want...

You all suggested a reputable breeder. Is that to say that I should be looking for private treaty sales?

Although it wouldn't be my first choice, it sure is hard to go wrong with a good Angus bull. If I were in your position, I would PM Frankie and get her to give you some info on the ALOT sales at Mt. Pleasant. That should be close to you and there are also breeders in that Association that will work with you on a private treaty sale. I've seen bulls from several of those breeders and I think you'll be pleased.

Both AAA and Texas Angus Association have bull locator services. Good bulls will be at the ALOT sale. If you don't mind traveling many Angus sales have free delivery anywere in the US. So traveling will be just you. I would advise that you not accept those site unseen guarantees.


Scotty