Late horn development in angus cross bull

southalberta

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As topic states I have late horn development is this bull he is now 10.5 months old. Horn development started less than 3 weeks ago.

I check for horns on anything with testes at birth this is the first. Seems odd after 10 months. Is this a normal development ?


 
This was a first calf heifer last year, her calf was sired by a registered Angus bull and the calf had horns. I will agree with the above post to a point. Angus will knock the horns off of most but their are some cases that they won’t. Sometimes scurs will grow out but unlike a horn they won’t be attached to the skull.
 
That’s a new one on me. I thought angus were all homozygous polled. Which should make all of their calves polled.
 
Being homozygous polled is an Angus requirement. There are DNA tests that can prove whether a bull is homozygous for the polled gene. However in certain cattle with Zebu ancestry, like Brahman, Santa Gertrudis and others, there is an additional gene that affects the inheritance of horns. The African horn gene (Af) also affects inheritance of horns in these animals. It appears that in males the African horn gene gene is dominant to the polled gene. This means that a single Af gene will result in a bull being horned, even if he is heterozygous or homozygous polled. In females the Af gene is recessive to the polled gene An. In heterozygous polled females two of the Af genes must be present for the animal to have horns. But in males only one Af gene is required to have horns.
 
Mother is 1/4 Brahman 3/4 longhorn.
Father is registered angus. Sure his bloodlines would make some angus people happy
 
kentuckyguy said:
That’s a new one on me. I thought angus were all homozygous polled. Which should make all of their calves polled.

That’s what I had always thought too, but from what I understand a small percentage of calves from breeds like longhorn will have horns.
 
This is my first out of probably
400 why I was wondering. Only one that’s been kept as a bull though.
 
Yes, most likely scurs... and probably coming from the dam's side - only one copy of the scur gene is required for males to express scur growth. But... the scur gene has been present in the Angus breed since early in its history - Shah and Hanton 80 were two early Angus bulls that had scurs.
We had a scurred cow out of a smooth polled SimAngus(could well have been a scur &/or horn gene carrier) by GAR Yield Grade some years back... in order for a cow to have scurs, she has to inherit one copy from each parent, so... I'd say YG was a scur carrier...

With the Brahman back behind this calf, the African Horn gene is a possibility... been so long since I read anything about its inheritance (if it's even considered to be a real deal, anymore) that I don't remember about its expression.
 
kentuckyguy said:
Angus will knock the horns off of anything. I highly doubt that ones an Angus.
Not if he carries the African horn gene trumps polled .

https://dpir.nt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/233105/795.pdf

Most of my calves will end up with nubs as they are out of Brahman influenced cows, long horns are known carriers as well.
Angus won’t knock the color off LH or SH either and Chars come out blue or yellow. There are several genes in the woodpile that don’t play by the rules or the :bs: spouted by the AAA.

Here’s one out of a homozygous Angus bull and 1/2 Char 1/4 Herf 1/4 Brimmer.

 
ALACOWMAN said:
Most likely scurs...

Felt his head this morning (very tame) they are definitely horns maybe 1.5” long. Did notice however that they are growing pointing back.
 
Caustic Burno said:
kentuckyguy said:
Angus will knock the horns off of anything. I highly doubt that ones an Angus.
Not if he carries the African horn gene trumps polled .

https://dpir.nt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/233105/795.pdf

Most of my calves will end up with nubs as they are out of Brahman influenced cows, long horns are known carriers as well.
Angus won’t knock the color off LH or SH either and Chars come out blue or yellow. There are several genes in the woodpile that don’t play by the rules or the :bs: spouted by the AAA.

Here’s one out of a homozygous Angus bull and 1/2 Char 1/4 Herf 1/4 Brimmer.


Thanks. Learn something new every day. That’s the reason I come here though. I had always heard from the old timers to throw an Angus bull on any horned cows to knock the horns off.
 
We put an Angus bull on a polled Hereford x Maine heifer. The Hereford was polled. The Maine was polled. The Maine/Hereford cow is polled. But her first calf had Hereford horns.

No Brahman or Longhorn in the woodpile.
 
JWBrahman said:
We put an Angus bull on a polled Hereford x Maine heifer. The Hereford was polled. The Maine was polled. The Maine/Hereford cow is polled. But her first calf had Hereford horns.

No Brahman or Longhorn in the woodpile.

That you know of, or the parents weren’t homozygous polled and carrying the horn gene.
First red flag I saw was the word Maine.
To be registered as Maine all you had to have is a picture of one driving by.
With a Maine you have no clue what is back in the woodpile. The knowledge of your genetics would be just as good buying one through the sale barn IMO.

“Adding Other Breeds Pedigrees
“Other breed” pedigrees can be added to the registration of an animal for either the sire or the dam. The fee to add a bull’s pedigree is $40 and to add a female’s pedigree is $25. Please send along a copy of the registration paper for each particular animal and include the proper fee. When requesting a pedigree to be added please use the original registration number for that breed and add the appropriate prefix to that number. Angus-AN, Red Angus – AR, Belted Galloway – BG, Brahman- BR. Chianina – CA, Charolais – CH, Galloway- GA, Gelbvieh – GV, Hereford- HH, Polled Hereford- HP, Shorthorn – IS, Limousin – LM, Lowline – LL, Canadian Maine – MA, Red Brangus – RB, Salers – SA, Simmental – SM, Polled Shorthorn – SP, Scottish Shorthorn – SS. Once the pedigree has been added the calf registration will then be completed.

Registering Bulls
Bulls must be sired by a) registered Maine bull, or b) registered bulls of another breed (see ‘Adding Other Breeds Pedigrees’ above).”
 
The Hereford was heterozygous, a polled x L1 breeding.

I sold that steer to a hobby guy and I saw it yesterday. He looks like those fat round Herefords of yesteryear except he is all black. Horns look exactly like Hereford horns.

Like many have previously stated, Angus has become a composite breed where a punnet square and Mendelian genetics/modes of inheritance don't follow the rules.
 
JWBrahman said:
The Hereford was heterozygous, a polled x L1 breeding.

I sold that steer to a hobby guy and I saw it yesterday. He looks like those fat round Herefords of yesteryear except he is all black. Horns look exactly like Hereford horns.

Like many have previously stated, Angus has become a composite breed where a punnet square and Mendelian genetics/modes of inheritance don't follow the rules.

The Angus is not where the horns are coming from it’s the Maine or whatever got registered as a Maine. If you have the African horn gene in your herd you will continue to get horns. If there is any LH or Brahman in the woodpile the African horn gene is a high probability of being there. You have no clue what’s in the Maine woodpile without DNA testing. Any association that allows breeding up is a joke, once the DNA is introduced it’s there forever and ever.
The heterozygous Hereford cross cow no telling what is in there.
The only known you had where the Angus genetics. The only homozygous genetics you were playing with were in the Angus and that doesn’t guarantee a polled calf in certain matings.
 
My two cents is some of the larger framed terminal Angus sires who add so much milk have some Holstein hiding in the closet.

That's what the Maine was for. She was those same East Texas genetics, a low milk low maintenance meat wagon. Got so fat on me last year she broke her leg in the mud. She was my experiment to deal with our local Brahman genetics which have too much Gyr. Jeff Smith started Smith Brahman with a pure Gyr bull. Some of the Holstein and Gyr were clicking and the cows had too much milk for our environment. Pretty much all the bigger stuff with too much milk has culled itself, now.
 
Ky hills said:
This was a first calf heifer last year, her calf was sired by a registered Angus bull and the calf had horns. I will agree with the above post to a point. Angus will knock the horns off of most but their are some cases that they won’t. Sometimes scurs will grow out but unlike a horn they won’t be attached to the skull.

Curious on what you say about attachment.

I have a young heifer that is Hereford by look, she has had what I was thinking were horns from about 2 months, but unlike others, I could get the nub and move it around, about 4 months later, is still the same.

Can a horn be like this and not attach till after 6 months ?
 

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