Keep bull or make hamburger ?

[grassfedbeefvw]

We are a small grass-fed beef operatiion. We have a beautiful bull of Angus and Continental parentage. He makes nice calves, has and passes great conformation, stays fat on grass. Much better than we could buy for what we could sell him for. But he is related to some brood cows. His half-sister just had a nice bull calf by him. 3 are his daughters. 3 are unrelated. Other cow genetics are mutt- Angus, Herford, Holstein, unknown. We are having an argument whether to keep him another year. What is the tradeoff between hybrid vigor and "better than his replacement"?

 

[3waycross]

We are a small grass-fed beef operatiion. We have a beautiful bull of Angus and Continental parentage. He makes nice calves, has and passes great conformation, stays fat on grass. Much better than we could buy for what we could sell him for. But he is related to some brood cows. His half-sister just had a nice bull calf by him. 3 are his daughters. 3 are unrelated. Other cow genetics are mutt- Angus, Herford, Holstein, unknown. We are having an argument whether to keep him another year. What is the tradeoff between hybrid vigor and "better than his replacement"?

Bulls are high right now and if you dump him while you still have green grass you will have nothing in him over the winter. He's already related to 1/2 your herd. Sounds like a nobrainer to me. Dump him now and take what you make and what you save and come real close to breaking even on your next bull!

 

[Lucky_P]

Everyone has an opinion, and most have at least some merit.

Too many people want to apply human 'moral' values to animal breeding, but IMO, in a small commercial herd, I see no great issue with a bull - if you like him and his calves - breeding his half-sibs or daughters. Just makes sense, in most instances, to make utilization of that bull and his genetics for a longer period of time - I can't see buying a new bull every 2 years, just because he has some daughters in the herd. Resulting calves won't necessarily be deformed/retarded - but if the bull is a carrier of undesirable recessive traits, those will have a greater likelihood of being expressed. And, by the same token, if he's got some really desirable traits, you'll be further concentrating those in your herd.
Now, if you get to the point that he's breeding granddaughters out of his own daughters, you may start seeing some inbreeding suppression (I did, in my little run at linebreeding - though some were exceptional), and it's probably time to introduce some new genetics.

Now, I'll certainly agree that you might be able to 'pound him out' and turn around and purchase a pretty decent replacement, either with just that cash or with a little extra added on - and, using an F1 halfblood bull on his daughters/half-sibs and crossbred cows may give up something in the way of 'uniformity' of calf crop, if that's one of your goals.

 

[3waycross]

Everyone has an opinion, and most have at least some merit.

Too many people want to apply human 'moral' values to animal breeding, but IMO, in a small commercial herd, I see no great issue with a bull - if you like him and his calves - breeding his half-sibs or daughters. Just makes sense, in most instances, to make utilization of that bull and his genetics for a longer period of time - I can't see buying a new bull every 2 years, just because he has some daughters in the herd. Resulting calves won't necessarily be deformed/retarded - but if the bull is a carrier of undesirable recessive traits, those will have a greater likelihood of being expressed. And, by the same token, if he's got some really desirable traits, you'll be further concentrating those in your herd.
Now, if you get to the point that he's breeding granddaughters out of his own daughters, you may start seeing some inbreeding suppression (I did, in my little run at linebreeding - though some were exceptional), and it's probably time to introduce some new genetics.

Now, I'll certainly agree that you might be able to 'pound him out' and turn around and purchase a pretty decent replacement, either with just that cash or with a little extra added on - and, using an F1 halfblood bull on his daughters/half-sibs and crossbred cows may give up something in the way of 'uniformity' of calf crop, if that's one of your goals.

Pretty much what i said and it had nothing to do with human moral values

 

[Rosielou]

We keep bulls for three years and then replace them. That way he's not breeding grandaughters but still covering daughters. With that we've always had success and no issues. But it's primarily up to the owner.