Just what we need: ANOTHER POLL

[ga. prime]

I don't see the difference in spending a bunch of money on producing high protein forage or spending the same amount on grain. In reading edrsimms post on a bunch of threads he pretty much says his cows graze on planted forages year around. Seed, fertilize, and fuel cost alot, might be cheaper to feed grain.

Precisely. It's all a question of which is more economical, but Ed is using the alleged health benefits of the finished product that has been fed an exclusive forage diet through the life cycle of the animal in his argument and that makes it an argument based on bias or opinion and the abilty to command a premium price for the end product rather than the economics of feed cost. It may be economical for Ed to grow out beef this way because he can get a premium price for grass fed/finished product. Demand for premium priced grass fed/finished beef is limited...

 

[ga. prime]

Ed, in the future try to not get separate posts from differnt posters mixed together in the quotes you use. I don't know how you manage to do that but it lends a fictitious air to your correspondence. Keep trying Ed, you'll get there!

 

[edrsimms]

I don't see the difference in spending a bunch of money on producing high protein forage or spending the same amount on grain. In reading edrsimms post on a bunch of threads he pretty much says his cows graze on planted forages year around. Seed, fertilize, and fuel cost alot, might be cheaper to feed grain.

It isn't cheaper to feed grain-- that is one of the high points gaprime. Another high point is that with a complete forage chain your nutrition never has a low/high rollercoaster curve.
Example:
warm season permanent pasture (WSPP) vs Hybrid Millet
Spring flush is the peak of grazing for WSPP then it begins to fall off the nutritional scale by July 1with
8% CP and 50% TDN.
Fertilzer for WSPP = Lime $35/acre/yr; NPK (2 applications) 75 - 40 - 60/yr $150/acre/yr --pathetic with that terrible feed value. Weed control 2-4-D or others @ $18/acre = $203.00 /acre
****(Stocking rate = 0.8 AUM's)
Cost per cow/calf unit is $240

Hybrid Millet-- Seed: $20/acre; Fertilizer: N = $60/acre per yr
Graze Mid May to October
CP is 18 to 21% and TDN at 70% and by fall down to 12% CP 60% TDN
Weed control: $0
Land prep - Disc twice and drill is minimal, I'd say $20/acre
****(Stocking rate = 4.8 AUM's) Cost = $100/acre
Cost per cow/calf unit is $25

Precisely. It's all a question of which is more economical, but Ed is using the alleged health benefits of the finished product that has been fed an exclusive forage diet through the life cycle of the animal in his argument and that makes it an argument based on bias or opinion and the abilty to command a premium price for the end product rather than the economics of feed cost.
Your point is irrelevant -- here--- I already know grass-finished beef is healthier than the grain-fed product and so does everyone else-- this has not been denied by the grain-fed enthusiast. Now go do the math again and be sure and count the cost of those acres in Corn production as yall keep omitting this part

It may be economical for Ed to grow out beef this way because he can get a premium price for grass fed/finished product. Demand for premium priced grass fed/finished beef is limited... hence the higher price -- go re-visit your old economics text and look up the supply-demand curve again

Ed

 

[edrsimms]

The poll is too simple to be skewed, even "a bit". It is a simple, direct question ~ with simple direct answers.

Yes, it would seem so. but I guess you didn't read their answers after taking the Poll -- they all feed grain- so what does that say to you one might say? The data is skewed in the direction of no grain feeding when in FACT they all chase their cows with buckets. Please read the posts people write before posting yourself, so that you can have a rellevant answer Ang

:tiphat:
Ed

 

[Angus Guy]

Ed

Your example is flawed because you did not factor in K and P in your millet example. On pasture a 50 units of N is enough. Depending on soil test 40 units of P once a yr is enough. Also depending on soil test your K example of 120 units is also enough. So my thought is apply a 50-40-120 in the spring and be happy. You should apply at least the same amount of P and K on your millet as you do on your pasture. Also $35/a/yr for lime seems to be awfully extreme.In my area I can apply lime for about $19/t. So if my soil test calls for 2t/a my cost is $38/a divided by 4yr of use equals $9.50/a. The $19/t for the lime includes trucking from the quarry,spreading, and the cost of lime.

 

[edrsimms]

Ed

Your example is flawed because you did not factor in K and P in your millet example. doesn't add P and K On pasture a 50 units of N is enough. Depending on soil test 40 units of P once a yr is enough. Also depending on soil test your K example of 120 units is also enough. So my thought is apply a 50-40-120 in the spring and be happy. You should apply at least the same amount of P and K on your millet as you do on your pasture. No, Millet doesn't require the same amount of fertilizer that permanent pasture does -- hence my point. Just admit that your WSPP costs more than Millet. Also admit that I can graze 6 times as many cattle on Millet as you can do on WSPP--- it is a FACT. Your way costs more and produces less --and my way costs a lot less and produces so much more.

Also $35/a/yr for lime seems to be awfully extreme.In my area I can apply lime for about $19/t. So if my soil test calls for 2t/a my cost is $38/a divided by 4yr of use equals $9.50/a. The $19/t for the lime includes trucking from the quarry,spreading, and the cost of lime.

 

[Angus Guy]

As an CCA I have to disagree with you. Soil tests following millet will show that it pulls as much P and K as sudax or rye. This being said if you are not applying any P and K you are mining your soil. Also in my example I could more than likely leave out the P because of the amount that is in the manure.

I am not arguing animal units. Just pointing out the flaws in your costs per acre.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I planted a little millet this year, it done alright, won't do it agin unless it is for hay. For what it cost me to plant the millet i could have bought protein tubs to feed this winter. I don't need the tubs this winter got good hay. If i had not spent money on planting the millet i would still have it in my pocket.

 

[TexasBred]

As an CCA I have to disagree with you. Soil tests following millet will show that it pulls as much P and K as sudax or rye. This being said if you are not applying any P and K you are mining your soil. Also in my example I could more than likely leave out the P because of the amount that is in the manure.

I am not arguing animal units. Just pointing out the flaws in your costs per acre.

You have to remember ed is not really doing this. Only "teaching it" to others. He pulls these assumptions out of the air with nothing to back them up. "Assuming" the value of any grass or crop for grazing is a guess at best....by the time you get a test result back the values have already changed.... As to all of his O-3 fatty acid comments, etc, the amount of O-3's in either is so neglible that even making the claim that it is "more healthy" is a very long stretch.

 

[mnmtranching]

Hey all you beef producers. We [the USA] has the best and most beef produced in the world.
We have the best genetics in the world. Our beef cows raise calves efficiently on grass and forage and our feeder calves do very well in the feedlot. So we have a couple special interest segments of our beef industry telling us [what 95% that use grain] That our beef genetics are messed up for grass fed.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
That is not what the US beef industry is about. And it's not about to change.

 

[grannysoo]

I'm still waiting to find out where to order this wonderful grass fed beef. Or... at least a big hat!

 

[TexasBred]

I'm still waiting to find out where to order this wonderful grass fed beef. Or... at least a big hat!

Granny order the hat. It will be delivered much sooner than anything 4-C (aka ed) has to offer.

 

[Dave]

The only grain I feed is in the winter when they are on hay. And then very little. Actually I only do it enough so a white bucket roundup will work if needed.

 

[TexasBred]

The only grain I feed is in the winter when they are on hay. And then very little. Actually I only do it enough so a white bucket roundup will work if needed.

I don't feed any "grain" either. Only some 40% pure cottonseed meal cubes to supplement this worthless hay around here.

 

[S&WSigma40VEShooter]

The only cows I have ever fed grain was embryo recips and growing heifers up until they were yearlings. Embryo recips need the extra nutrition to get and stay bred according to my vet and they only get about 7 pounds per head per day. That goes for heifers to. Of course the steers are fed all they can eat but that dont really count I dont guess.

 

[Lucky_P]

We start fall/winter feeding tomorrow - 50+ cows & their calves will spend the next 2 months on a 10-acre 'sacrifice' paddock, and will get ~10lb/hd of good quality grass hay(access to the hay feeders for about an hour a day) and 10-12lb/hd of modified distiller's grain product(from the local ethanol plant) - and anything else they can find to eat in that field.
Around Dec. 1, we'll start strip grazing them through about 60 acres of stockpiled fescue, probably will continue to feed *some* MDG product daily, holding back about 1/3 of the year's hay supply 'til we see how the stockpiled pastures are gonna hold out.

We've been limit-feeding hay & MDG for the past 3 winters, and the cows have come through the winter in far better shape than when they had free-choice access to all the crappy local 'holiday' hay I could keep in front of them; calves have grown out better, and replacement heifers coming on are not nearly so wild as some of the older cows whose days here are numbered.