just getting started...advice???

[options]

Well you see they are 2 months past being yearlings, but they were just weaned off the cow when they were loaded onto the truck. His weaning weights are by far leaps and bounds ahead of any of the other locals.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Could I leave a graft on a nurse cow for 20 months and claim some type of record on WW

 

[S17 Rodeo Co.]

okay may be a stupid question but what is high quality to you... confirmation, milking ability, muscling, EPD, is registered cow/bull a high quality specification....or would I be alright to buy some good looking, good producing cross cattle?
what about foundation cows...
black baldies, santa gertrudis, beefmaster...crossed with angus? what breeds did you start out with ...and why?

A little older cow that has raised decent calves before, bred back on time, maintained decent condition for the management conditions, good solid feet and legs, sound udder, deep bodied, good topline and moves easily and has a decent disposition. Sounds like a lot but it really isn;t.
Good crossbred cows would be the best way to get started. 5-8 year old cows would be my choice. For a bull depending on if you plan on keeping replacments I would want a bull that has daughters that calve easily and has calves that are born easily, close to the breed average for milk, WW and YW. Other then the udder, all of the same kinds of physical characteristics as a cow. Just substitute scrotum and penis for udder.
I wouldn;t play the seedstock/registered game with the cow herd for starters

Thanks, that clarifies things a little more... I made it out to the local sale barn today, just to see what was out there and what the prices were. most of thecattle I saw go through were deffinitely culls. the price was from .50(a small little sickly calf) to about .95 or .96 was the highest I think. it is a wide range , the high end was for a decent group of angus cross steers avg. weight of about 680#.

 

[Txwalt]

Could I leave a graft on a nurse cow for 20 months and claim some type of record on WW

Apparently. I run a 40yd dash in about 3 seconds with a bad clock. :lol2:

Walt

 

[greatgerts]

okay may be a stupid question but what is high quality to you... confirmation, milking ability, muscling, EPD, is registered cow/bull a high quality specification....or would I be alright to buy some good looking, good producing cross cattle?
what about foundation cows...
black baldies, santa gertrudis, beefmaster...crossed with angus? what breeds did you start out with ...and why?

Santa Gertrudis crossed with Red Angus work really well. They also work well with Simmis and Herfs too.

 

[S17 Rodeo Co.]

okay may be a stupid question but what is high quality to you... confirmation, milking ability, muscling, EPD, is registered cow/bull a high quality specification....or would I be alright to buy some good looking, good producing cross cattle?
what about foundation cows...
black baldies, santa gertrudis, beefmaster...crossed with angus? what breeds did you start out with ...and why?

Santa Gertrudis crossed with Red Angus work really well. They also work well with Simmis and Herfs too.

what about gerts and black angus....why red? (just curious...I am new to this! black seems to be the popular color around here from what I saw yeaterday, as well as a lot of other areas....

 

[dun]

okay may be a stupid question but what is high quality to you... confirmation, milking ability, muscling, EPD, is registered cow/bull a high quality specification....or would I be alright to buy some good looking, good producing cross cattle?
what about foundation cows...
black baldies, santa gertrudis, beefmaster...crossed with angus? what breeds did you start out with ...and why?

Santa Gertrudis crossed with Red Angus work really well. They also work well with Simmis and Herfs too.

what about gerts and black angus....why red? (just curious...I am new to this! black seems to be the popular color around here from what I saw yeaterday, as well as a lot of other areas....

As was previously mentioned Gerts or any of the other breeds with Brahman influence will probably get you docked in your area and the heat tolerence of those breeds isn;t required.

 

[S17 Rodeo Co.]

oh forgot to say, so another of my ideas was what about buying good quality (as described by Dun above) cows that are black or dark coated of varying breeds. Long as they are in good health, good condition and have good maternal instincts...then leasing a reg. bull (like an angus) or buying a bull and trading him for another in a few years, then going from there....keeping some replacements, selling some of the original cows, buying more cows...etc. and possibly slowly buy one or two reg. cows to throw in the mix to see how their calves sell in contrast to the grade stock.... good idea or bad??

 

[dun]

oh forgot to say, so another of my ideas was what about buying good quality (as described by Dun above) cows that are black or dark coated of varying breeds. Long as they are in good health, good condition and have good maternal instincts...then leasing a reg. bull (like an angus) or buying a bull and trading him for another in a few years, then going from there....keeping some replacements, selling some of the original cows, buying more cows...etc. and possibly slowly buy one or two reg. cows to throw in the mix to see how their calves sell in contrast to the grade stock.... good idea or bad??

In my opinion that's the best way to get in on the gorund floor of the business. Remember that quality will trump quantity everytime.

 

[S17 Rodeo Co.]

oh forgot to say, so another of my ideas was what about buying good quality (as described by Dun above) cows that are black or dark coated of varying breeds. Long as they are in good health, good condition and have good maternal instincts...then leasing a reg. bull (like an angus) or buying a bull and trading him for another in a few years, then going from there....keeping some replacements, selling some of the original cows, buying more cows...etc. and possibly slowly buy one or two reg. cows to throw in the mix to see how their calves sell in contrast to the grade stock.... good idea or bad??

In my opinion that's the best way to get in on the gorund floor of the business. Remember that quality will trump quantity everytime.

Thank you, yes that is for sure...it is the same way with the bucking bull industry(except those are all registered cattle) quality is always the best way to go.

Now as long are you are extremely thorough in your examinations of an animal and know what to look for( as far as bad and good points) would you be against buying older(4-8 yr.) cows from the sale barn? my only concern is the problems you can't see such as infertility/other repro problems. if there is one good lookin, good quality cow there...is that a red flag there is something wrong not visible to the eye?? I guess you never really know, and that is the risk of the sale barn. of course I could probably try and find the consignor, but then again maybe they are crooks...lol no offense to anyone

 

[dun]

oh forgot to say, so another of my ideas was what about buying good quality (as described by Dun above) cows that are black or dark coated of varying breeds. Long as they are in good health, good condition and have good maternal instincts...then leasing a reg. bull (like an angus) or buying a bull and trading him for another in a few years, then going from there....keeping some replacements, selling some of the original cows, buying more cows...etc. and possibly slowly buy one or two reg. cows to throw in the mix to see how their calves sell in contrast to the grade stock.... good idea or bad??

In my opinion that's the best way to get in on the gorund floor of the business. Remember that quality will trump quantity everytime.

Thank you, yes that is for sure...it is the same way with the bucking bull industry(except those are all registered cattle) quality is always the best way to go.

Now as long are you are extremely thorough in your examinations of an animal and know what to look for( as far as bad and good points) would you be against buying older(4-8 yr.) cows from the sale barn? my only concern is the problems you can't see such as infertility/other repro problems. if there is one good lookin, good quality cow there...is that a red flag there is something wrong not visible to the eye?? I guess you never really know, and that is the risk of the sale barn. of course I could probably try and find the consignor, but then again maybe they are crooks...lol no offense to anyone

Nothing wrong with buying solid 4-8 year old cows at the sale barn as long as they're preg checked and with calf. I've bought some darn good cows that way, also had a fid stuck in me a couple of times but never with bred cows, only heifers.

 

[S17 Rodeo Co.]

oh forgot to say, so another of my ideas was what about buying good quality (as described by Dun above) cows that are black or dark coated of varying breeds. Long as they are in good health, good condition and have good maternal instincts...then leasing a reg. bull (like an angus) or buying a bull and trading him for another in a few years, then going from there....keeping some replacements, selling some of the original cows, buying more cows...etc. and possibly slowly buy one or two reg. cows to throw in the mix to see how their calves sell in contrast to the grade stock.... good idea or bad??

Leasing a bull is a good way to get diseases into your herd. I would advise against it. Buy a bull keep him for a year and then sale him and buy another.

thanks!

 

[greatgerts]

Dun is right by not needing the heat tolerance and getting docked at the barn. We see some, but the increase in weaning weights has helped cover that.
I mentioned Red Angus because that is what I have seen buyers wanting lately. They will work well with Black Angus, I just haven't seen a big demand for that as much.

 

[S17 Rodeo Co.]

great, thank you all for the advice. Is there any breeders on here from Oregon that know where to find some nice (lower priced) black cows? They can be a cross. Thank you!

 

[djinwa]

Make sure the bull you get is a virgin bull and has had a bse done and has been tested for bvd, johnes, trich, usually if they are a virgin you wont need to test em for that stuff but some cattleman do anyways just as a precuationary measure etc. Those are all diseases you definitely do not want in your herd.

So you get a virgin bull, then go buy a bunch of older cows from the sale barn. How do you know the cows aren't carrying these diseases, so can infect the bull and then the other cows?

 

[S17 Rodeo Co.]

good point. but how easy is it to cross infections? if you annually vaccinate your breeding cows it should help...I know it won;t stop it 100% and there may be some diseases you can't vaccinate against...

just curious, when dry lotted what does the average cow eat weighing about 1000-1200lbs. ( i know it depends on time of year, individual cow, whether she is lacctating/pregnant or not etc) just a rough estimamte. my bucking stock eats about 30 lbs of good hay a day per head.

 

[chippie]

I would wait until you have pasture to keep your cows. Keeping them on a dry lot and having to feed hay and grain will be very expensive, plus the chances of disease and parasite infection is greater.