Jr shows

[htrc]

I recently judged a "jr" heifer and prospect steer show. I guess I was taken back a bit when my ringman started telling what these people had given for these calves. Some of the "kids" had multiple five figure calves in their trailers. He also started telling me how some of the parents would come in the ring with me if I didn't give reasons to suit them.
I was very short and I didn't say much at all about the calves.I just placed them the way I felt they needed to be and said some fluff. I did not have any problems,other than a few comments in the parking lot.
What can we do as an industry to make the Jr shows about kids again. Kids showing cattle should be a learning and fun experience. Kids learn life lessons as well as business. It should not be about who can spend the most. Is there a way? Do we put a limit on what a kid can spend on a calf? Should the calves be bred by the exhib. or their family?
I don't like these ideas, but I think we need to do something.The kids need to learn more than whoever has the most money wins and poor sportsmanship is O.K. when you don't.
The steer I made Reserve was a calf that I could tell the girl had worked with herself and her family had bred,I asked the kids what sire and dams were on the calves in class. It was a good steer that maybe wasn't as flashy,but was a heck of a good calf. The only thing I heard was that I "didn't know the difference between a $1500 steer and a $20,000 steer".
I am venting a little,sorry, but I would like to some input on how we can deal with this issue.

 

[chippie]

One year at our fair, a dad got mad when his son's steer didn't place where he thought it should. He tried to hit the judge in the ring. It made the national news.

It is the same thing in our area. Parents with money will spend it. I don't think that you could limit the shows to homebred cattle because there are many FFA kids who live in the city, don't have a family farm, and keep their stock at the Ag Barn.

More and more areas are becoming urban and the kids who show that live in town are starting to outnumber the rural kids.

Club calves is a big industry in my neck of the woods.

 

[htrc]

I am a 4-H club leader and work with the local FFA chapter,have kids involved with both. I also have my own kids that show. I started judging shows last year and this was the first time I had really come away from a show with a bad feeling. The kids in our area are more involved with breeding cattle I guess. We get some five figured cattle,but there just seems to be a different attitude.

 

[Chris H]

You have some valid concerns; however, if that $20,000 calf was better than the $1,500 calf, then you did a disservice to the kids by placing the $1,500 calf higher. If the $1,500 calf was better, then I commend you for placing it above the other one.
Some of the concerns you mentioned is why I prefer raising purebreds.

 

[chippie]

We have been a 4-H family for 16 years and I am a leader and club manager for our county's horse club. I've been on our fair's livestock committee for 6 years and chairman of the roaster committee.

It all boils down to the parents. I see it every year. It's sad. The parents are eager for their child to win at whatever the cost. It is like it is the parent's project and the child just happens to show the animal. I hear the parent's talking about how "they" feed, how "they" work the animals, what they do. Not what their child does. And I see the parents grooming and fitting the animals while their children stand by visiting with friends.

It is the same as some over the top Little League parents only it is in Livestock projects and shows. The parents are living through their children. I hope that makes sense.

 

[htrc]

I stand behind placing the steer in reserve. I placed a steer in the grand slot that was a high $ calf. I stated to the crowd that I could make a case for all the calves,in the championship drive,to be grand. I would not place him in reserve unless I thought he deserved to be there that day.

 

[TxSimbrahShower]

IMAO, the only way to get away from the high dollar animals, is for the major shows not to hand out the cash, make it a scholarship, only payable to a college or trade school.

Too many steer jocks furnishing kids calves to show at majors, steer wins, sells for $100,000.00, exhibitor is guaranteed $40,000.00, major show sends exhibitor check, parents cash check and sends steer jock, $30,000.00 or $35,000.00 out of it.

Same way with heifer's at some majors that hand out $10,000.00, for breed champions. It will never change, too much money involved. Money talks, BS walks.
That's just my 2 cents.

mom

 

[Jovid]

IMAO, the only way to get away from the high dollar animals, is for the major shows not to hand out the cash, make it a scholarship, only payable to a college or trade school.

Too many steer jocks furnishing kids calves to show at majors, steer wins, sells for $100,000.00, exhibitor is guaranteed $40,000.00, major show sends exhibitor check, parents cash check and sends steer jock, $30,000.00 or $35,000.00 out of it.

Same way with heifer's at some majors that hand out $10,000.00, for breed champions. It will never change, too much money involved. Money talks, BS walks.
That's just my 2 cents.

mom

What you are saying is absolutely correct and I think what htrc is saying that it has now trickled down to the local level. I know our local show has the same problem. It has come down to which parent has the most money to buy their kid the best steer and to pay for someone to fit it. What ever happened to the kid being involved in the 4-H, FFA project?

 

[Avalon]

IMAO, the only way to get away from the high dollar animals, is for the major shows not to hand out the cash, make it a scholarship, only payable to a college or trade school.

Too many steer jocks furnishing kids calves to show at majors, steer wins, sells for $100,000.00, exhibitor is guaranteed $40,000.00, major show sends exhibitor check, parents cash check and sends steer jock, $30,000.00 or $35,000.00 out of it.

Same way with heifer's at some majors that hand out $10,000.00, for breed champions. It will never change, too much money involved. Money talks, BS walks.
That's just my 2 cents.

mom

Koodo's Mom. Take the huge incentive out for profiteers. Get realistic with the payouts, turn them into scholarships. Seems like this could help. You will still have parents that are in it for the bragging rights (willing to spend the bucks). But it will take a lot of the air out of their sales and sails. Maybe they need a professional divison for steer jocks. A no holds barred competition. They could spend all they want, gamble on the shows, beat each other up. Air the cattle, use whatever drugs, whatever cosmetic surgery..... etc. Thats what some of the jocks are allready doing. Cheating would be encouraged in the premium book.
It would be great to see the return of ethics and integrity to real junior projects and the show ring.

 

[Jovid]

It would be great to see the return of ethics and integrity to real junior projects and the show ring.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[htrc]

I don't want to give the wrong impression. I am glad that the club calf breeders are making some return on the years of investment they have. I think there is a way to balance realistic $ amounts for youth and still have the club calf guys make money. I guess what I was hoping to spark was ideas on a way to acheive this balance.

 

[Jovid]

I don't want to give the wrong impression. I am glad that the club calf breeders are making some return on the years of investment they have. I think there is a way to balance realistic $ amounts for youth and still have the club calf guys make money. I guess what I was hoping to spark was ideas on a way to acheive this balance.

One way would be to make the steer competiotion a true market steer show. If you judged them on three things, show ring, rate of gain and carcass grading that will eliminate most of the club calves form the overall grand champion. They would win the show but would not do as well in the rate of gain or the carcass competion. The county next to us does that and it makes a very fair competion to the kidd that doen't have a lot of money to buy a high dollar club calf. JMO

 

[Avalon]

I don't want to give the wrong impression. I am glad that the club calf breeders are making some return on the years of investment they have. I think there is a way to balance realistic $ amounts for youth and still have the club calf guys make money. I guess what I was hoping to spark was ideas on a way to acheive this balance.

Make a totally different professional division.

 

[Chris H]

I don't want to give the wrong impression. I am glad that the club calf breeders are making some return on the years of investment they have. I think there is a way to balance realistic $ amounts for youth and still have the club calf guys make money. I guess what I was hoping to spark was ideas on a way to acheive this balance.

The best way to fight it is to place the calves on their own merit, just as it sounds like you did. Don't place based on who's leading the calf, or who has the most hair; place them on their carcass value or breed representation if breeding stock.

 

[TheBullLady]

I can't agree more... there has to be a way to "even the playing field" for these kids. It is so grossly unfair in some places that it isn't even funny. A friend of mine has a daughter that shows, and they spends thousands buying her cattle that will win. I don't understand the point in this.. all your proving is that you have more $$ than someone else.. not that you've spent more time or effort doing it. What is the point??

Don't get me started on this.. it irks me to no end. I don't have kids, but I've gone to shows that kids that have bought calves from me are at, and you're right, the parents are WAY more involved than I would have ever imagined. And to get mad because a judge places someone higher than your kid is uncredibly juvenile behaviour, and what are they teaching their kids?

 

[EAT BEEF]

I don't know what the solution is,but it's a game if you don't like the game don't play

People are going to play to win,do you want them not playing to win?

Life isn't fair.

Trying to limit spending will just = more cheating.

Parents should act like adults,but it's good for kids to see stupid people maybe they won't act as stupid some day.

Whats the shame in doing the best you can with what you have? Who will take the most away from the experience?

All the judge should do is place them the way he has seen them that day, it's not showmanship it's a beauty contest.

 

[htrc]

I think that doing your best and giving 100% is a great thing. However, I think some people go a little to far. As I stated in an earlier post. Jr. shows are about learning,not just about winning. Learning several life lessons. Things like responsiblity, giving 100% at all endeavers, helping others, work ethic, dedication, business and sales, attention to detail, and many others. Then you have the aspect of teaching kids how to judge, feed, and tend livestock.
I think we are developing future leaders or at least productive members of the community. I guess I don't share the same opinion about life. I tell my kids to make the most of what they have. Spending lots of money on a calf just to win isn't really helping the kid learn anything in my humble opinion. I also hope that we are developing future breeders, people who will be taking the industry forward. Just about anybody can buy a good animal. It takes talent, hard work and determination to breed a better animal.
I want nothing more than for kids to succeed. There is more to success than winning the prize.
Earning a win will teach a kid much more than buying a win.

 

[Diamond G]

I had a post on here a while back titled how much for a show calf, You are exactly right it is out of hand, I remember when High Dollar calf WAS $1,500 now about $7,000 to compete with heifers. I think you really have to look at the kid how much of there own time are they putting into it, what are they learning, are they fitting and trimming themselves, Take all into consideration and should help making a decision on how much you want to spend. We started out low and moved up a little each year but so did the education and work, and planned for long term goals.
I know we can go on and on.

 

[BAR_R]

This is a money business and it will never change. Every breed will have the big dogs that have influence and power. Let's say the big shows do just give scholarships it still won't change things. Look at the Heat Wave Bull. He won all the state fairs and jackpot shows. Did the steer jocks really make all the money, not really, the owners who have now made 6 clones of him have. The money is in selling all the semen straws and sons/daughters of .... Just think how many straws have been sold if they have had to make 6 clones of the same animal!

It took me a long time to get it through my head but if you are going to compete in a sport (and it kind of is a sport) that uses judges it will never be fair.

Just have the most fun you can and your kids will still have a good time. Some of the best life lessons don't come from winning but trying.

 

[karlie45]

Yes, some parents do all the work. Yes, some parents spend high dollars for a show steer. Yes, it happens.
But just because it happens doesn't mean that there aren't kids out there you spend hours a day walking that fluffy steer, bathing that fluffy steer. Some kids earn it. They do their homework, pick their bulls to breed to some cows. Or maybe they pick their pairing for an embryo calf. They train, bathe, feed, and are fully involved with their animal. Trust me, this happens too.
Just because one spoiled girl showing a big fluffy steer is walking in the ring, doesn't mean that the girl leading the steer behind her, an equally 'pretty' steer didn't do her fair share of work.
Just because the kid is lucky enough to be holding the halter of a champion, doesn't mean she didn't work hard. Sure, the parents may have done the work, but please, don't judge untill you know for sure.

-and yes, I know of some kids who have a low dollar steer who was trained, fed and raised, not by the showman, but by the parents. Trust me, i see it. This parent thing goes both ends -high and low dollar-

Just puttin it out there- not trying to start something.
Karlie