Johne's?

[greggy]

Ok.....yeah, I noticed they seem far more curious than sheep, and happy to eat things like plastic bags that sheep will not touch.

So which stomach does the magnet sit in ? And it wont help with things like some missing wiring from my tractor !

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Magnet doesn't help for hard plastic or glass either. But, it sure is a helpful tool.

 

[Chocolate Cow2]

TC-please let us know how this turns out. And tell your friend it'll be ok. It doesn't feel like it right now, but it will be.

 

[TCRanch]

Ok.....yeah, I noticed they seem far more curious than sheep, and happy to eat things like plastic bags that sheep will not touch.

So which stomach does the magnet sit in ? And it wont help with things like some missing wiring from my tractor !

The magnet is administered with a balling gun and settles in the reticulum (2nd chamber). As a general rule it stays there for the life of the cow (or bull). Very rare, but it is possible for the magnet to pass. Theoretically "hardware disease" can be virtually any sharp object that is ingested. The cow may not show or really have many symptoms unless or until the object penetrates the reticulum and in my case, then penetrates the heart which segues into coronary artery disease. Obviously nothing can totally eliminate hardware disease but a magnet is a relatively inexpensive precaution that generally works.

 

[TCRanch]

TC-please let us know how this turns out. And tell your friend it'll be ok. It doesn't feel like it right now, but it will be.

Thank, CC. Wine, party of 2!

 

[Buck Randall]

It probably merits its own thread, but this is a good place to emphasize the importance of biosecurity testing before bringing in new animals. If raising cattle is your living, don't bring in a bull that hasn't been tested for trich, Johne's, or Salmonella dublin. You might go your whole life without ever finding a positive, but it's a relatively cheap insurance policy against a disease that can ruin your herd.

 

[Ebenezer]

I'm a bit curious why the discussion or mention of PCR testing never came up? I know it is a bit of an expense but it is accurate and quick on the diagnosis.

 

[Chocolate Cow2]

I think the conversation hadn't reached the point of discussing how to proceed on testing the herd.
When I tested, it was pooled samples, 4 to 1, PCR. Clean gloves for each animal, red top test tubes, cows in-herd I. D. tag number on each tube, a teaspoon of manure per animal.
I used a lab out of Grand Ledge, Michigan.
TC said the local veterinarian was very active in this case.
I am extremely fortunate to have Dr. Lana Kaiser as a friend and she guided me through the testing process and set me up with the lab.

 

[Chocolate Cow2]

[/quote]
Thank, CC. Wine, party of 2!
[/quote]
Actually, for what l've spent on testing and what your friend is going to spend, some whine (see what I did there) is justified. No. I don't need a glass. I'll take the bottle and go sit in a corner.
The only lingering effect she'll have from this is total paranoia. Every time a cow looks thin or different, she'll be terrified that Johne's was hiding somewhere and was missed in the testing. Trust me. It's real.
And Buck Randall is spot-on about testing new animals.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

And one of the nasty things about Johnes, you can test and the results are negative, but they can LIE. Positive is always correct, but you can have false negatives. And, unless they have new testing, you couldn't test until they were two yrs old.

 

[TCRanch]

Her paranoia has segued over to me. I know when my herd moves to the lake there's always a few with loose stool because there's so much lush grass (and a lot of Johnson grass) so I'm watching them like a hawk. Get a grip!

And learning a valuable lesson the hard way. It honestly never occurred to me (and obviously not my friend or her dad) to have a yearling, registered, virgin bull from a reputable sale tested for anything other than their BSE.

And Buck, testing for trich is mandatory in KS if it's not a virgin bull or over 18 months.

 

[Buck Randall]

And learning a valuable lesson the hard way. It honestly never occurred to me (and obviously not my friend or her dad) to have a yearling, registered, virgin bull from a reputable sale tested for anything other than their BSE.

Most people think that way until they get burned. I've never worked with a herd that's been in your friend's situation, but I have seen the other end, where a seedstock producer finds out they have a disease because it showed up on a customer's farm. That's not fun, either.

 

[Chocolate Cow2]

Mine came to me with a registered heifer bought at a production sale.
When she was 5 she tested positive. I sold her and her calf at side but she had a daughter that I kept to breed. That daughter, after calving, tested positive. I sure shot myself in the foot by not eliminating that entire group of females.
I tested specific groups for several years. I also sold a lot of females without testing, based on visual evaluation. They were thin with rough hair coats. Their appearance wasn't consistent with the rest of the herd.
Now, if I buy a bull, I have 1-2 sources, but mostly I'm raising my own. Nothing coming in. I don't go to any production sales at all.

 

[TCRanch]

Little update: she did sell the bull and sent the sale bill and test results to the breeder, who was initially on the defense. We'll see how that turns out. But it at least looks like there's progress in a vaccine for Johne's.

http://www.angusbeefbulletin.com/extra/2019/07jul19/0719hn-JohnesVaccine.html?utm_source=EXTRA&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=mjuly19_extra

 

[76 Bar]

testing for trich is mandatory in KS if it's not a virgin bull or over 18 months.

Same protocol in the western states as well. If its not already, should be mandatory in all 50 states.

 

[76 Bar]

Little update: she did sell the bull and sent the sale bill and test results to the breeder, who was initially on the defense. We'll see how that turns out.

Inexcusable and unethical behavior. If it was a registered bull I'd be having a talk with the respective association post haste.

 

[TCRanch]

Little update: she did sell the bull and sent the sale bill and test results to the breeder, who was initially on the defense. We'll see how that turns out.

Inexcusable and unethical behavior. If it was a registered bull I'd be having a talk with the respective association post haste.

They did simmer down a bit but she was pretty surprised at the tone. I certainly hope they don't simply offer her a discount on another bull. I wouldn't want one!

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

They (sellers) are stupid if they think they can ignore it. Cattle do not get Johnes at an older age. Just calves. Sellers need to start addressing their issue at home. The cost of this bull is the least of their concerns - or SHOULD be.
Edit: I read that article and that sounds promising. But, it said adult cattle can get it from contaminated forage. I did not know that. I thought adult cows can get their udder contaminated from the land and it passes on to the calf. Interesting.
I googled searched and got some more info:
"Johne's disease usually enters a herd when healthy but infected animals (Stage I or II) are introduced. Cattle are most susceptible to the infection in the first year of life. Calves most often become infected by swallowing small amounts of infected manure from the calving environment or udder of the cow. In addition, calves can become infected while in the uterus or by swallowing bacteria passed in milk and colostrum. Studies have shown that up to 25 percent of calves are infected in utero if the cow is in Stage III of the disease. Calves may become infected by exposure to contaminated manure any time in the first year of life (e.g., from manure splatter to calves raised near adult cows).

Cattle of any age can become infected, though some age resistance does occur. This age resistance can be overcome by high doses of bacteria over time from sources such as manure-contaminated feed bunks or water sources. All ruminants are susceptible to Johne's disease. In addition, all infected animals shed the organism through feces, thereby creating a possible route of exposure."
https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/animalhealth/nvap/NVAP-Reference-Guide/Control-and-Eradication/Johnes-Disease

 

[out to pasture]

hard to say hello to a group this way but this is why im here and i do relize this is an old post .

i have neighbouring breeder that is passing it on to customers and sale barns. they say they dont have it but why would you ship register heifers an breed cows to local sale barn , i have heard they have had aprox 30 case in the last 12 months or less .
they very power full people in this area.
another bit of info why would you give 40 cc or more of la 200 to healthy 8 month old calf ! maybe i should have said hello an left it there sorry if i broke a rule but me an several others are dum founded as what can be done to stop this

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

:welcome:
It is a sneeky, nasty disease. Be sure you have good fencing to keep any of their strays off your land. And, never let anyone on your land that has been on their farm without disinfecting their shoes/boots.