Is THIS significant? WHY??

[DOC HARRIS]

The Front Page of CattleToday has an article titled, "Research Paper looks at upswing in Quality Grades". Very interesting paper! Here is an excerpt from that article which asks "Why" the upswing.

Angus bull usage increased from 39 percent to a 55 percent share of all bulls from 1994 to 2008, and nearly 70 percent of commercial cows are now considered primarily Angus.

Do you agree with the conclusions? Do you have any other 'jusifications' for the upswing? In My Opinion - the answers(s) do not follow a straight line from low to high. BUT - it seems to me that there is a primary reason for the majority of the increase. :nod:

What is your opinion?

But - be fair and objective in your answer(s).

DOC HARRIS

 

[DOC HARRIS]

As a help in your RESEARCH on this question, FRANKIE has a post titled "RESEARCH" which will provide a LOT of information for you.

DOC HARRIS

 

[BC]

Could it be that all breeds started to look at marbling and IMF scores? I know in the Santa Gertrudis breed that there was a push to select for more IMF and identify family lines through GeneStar testing that had marbling and tenderness. I assume (and you know what happens with that) that other breeds were doing the same thing.

 

[Frankie]

Good post, DOC.

 

[novatech]

The Front Page of CattleToday has an article titled, "Research Paper looks at upswing in Quality Grades". Very interesting paper! Here is an excerpt from that article which asks "Why" the upswing.

Angus bull usage increased from 39 percent to a 55 percent share of all bulls from 1994 to 2008, and nearly 70 percent of commercial cows are now considered primarily Angus.

Do you agree with the conclusions? Do you have any other 'jusifications' for the upswing? In My Opinion - the answers(s) do not follow a straight line from low to high. BUT - it seems to me that there is a primary reason for the majority of the increase. :nod:

What is your opinion?

But - be fair and objective in your answer(s).

DOC HARRIS

Marketing has done more for the Angus breed than anything else. I do not care how good a product is, without good marketing it is worthless.
What I do like about the AAA literature is that they continue to promote using EPD's as well as phonetical expression to breed better cattle.

 

[Jake]

There is no doubt that the increased use in angus bulls has helped quality scores. It would take 20-30 years of single trait selection for carcass traits to get many breeds to where angus are today.

 

[novaman]

There is no doubt that the increased use in angus bulls has helped quality scores. It would take 20-30 years of single trait selection for carcass traits to get many breeds to where angus are today.

Since I look at this as being a "bold statement" I decided I would put it in bold font for you. I'm curious how you came up with that figure anyway.

 

[HerefordSire]

The Front Page of CattleToday has an article titled, "Research Paper looks at upswing in Quality Grades". Very interesting paper! Here is an excerpt from that article which asks "Why" the upswing.

Angus bull usage increased from 39 percent to a 55 percent share of all bulls from 1994 to 2008, and nearly 70 percent of commercial cows are now considered primarily Angus.

Do you agree with the conclusions? Do you have any other 'jusifications' for the upswing? In My Opinion - the answers(s) do not follow a straight line from low to high. BUT - it seems to me that there is a primary reason for the majority of the increase. :nod:

What is your opinion?

But - be fair and objective in your answer(s).

DOC HARRIS

I disagree with the paper because noone asked me what kind of bulls and cows I run.

 

[alacattleman]

Angus bull usage increased from 39 percent to a 55 percent share of all bulls from 1994 to 2008, and nearly 70 percent of commercial cows are now considered primarily Angus.

Do you agree with the conclusions? Do you have any other 'jusifications' for the upswing? In My Opinion - the answers(s) do not follow a straight line from low to high. BUT - it seems to me that there is a primary reason for the majority of the increase. :nod:

What is your opinion?

But - be fair and objective in your answer(s).

DOC HARRIS

[/quote]

I disagree with the paper because noone asked me what kind of bulls and cows I run.[/quote] i thought that was classified information

 

[alacattleman]

There is no doubt that the increased use in angus bulls has helped quality scores. It would take 20-30 years of single trait selection for carcass traits to get many breeds to where angus are today.

Since I look at this as being a "bold statement" I decided I would put it in bold font for you. I'm curious how you came up with that figure anyway.

dont know if he was bold for stateing it, or a bold staement,, but angus are known as the carcass breed

 

[HerefordSire]

The report is just guessing for percentages Bammy. Did someone ask you what kind of bulls and cows you run?

 

[Frankie]

The report is just guessing for percentages Bammy. Did someone ask you what kind of bulls and cows you run?

Guessing at what percentages? % of Choice, marbling scores, heifers in the feedlot, CAB acceptance...lots of percentages in this report? Which one are they "guessing" about?

 

[HerefordSire]

The report is just guessing for percentages Bammy. Did someone ask you what kind of bulls and cows you run?

Guessing at what percentages? % of Choice, marbling scores, heifers in the feedlot, CAB acceptance...lots of percentages in this report? Which one are they "guessing" about?

I bolded the text in my reply to Doc.

 

[Frankie]

The report is just guessing for percentages Bammy. Did someone ask you what kind of bulls and cows you run?

Guessing at what percentages? % of Choice, marbling scores, heifers in the feedlot, CAB acceptance...lots of percentages in this report? Which one are they "guessing" about?

I bolded the text in my reply to Doc.

This comment?

Angus bull usage increased from 39 percent to a 55 percent share of all bulls from 1994 to 2008, and nearly 70 percent of commercial cows are now considered primarily Angus.

It's apparently an estimate based on some solid information. They did ask people what breed bull they were using. I guess they just missed you.

The article says

Utilizing bull turnout survey data, a 1995 national survey by the ABG Inc research firm showed that 39% of bulls utilized were Angus, while a 2008 national Dovers survey showed that 55% of the bulls used were Angus, and that 70% of producers used at least some Angus bulls. Not only has the use of Angus sires increased , but the ratio of commercial cows being designated as "Primarily Angus" is nearing 70%.

IMO, the entire article is worth reading. Link below. There's a lot more involved here than just using Angus bulls. Of course, I think that's a great idea, too.

http://www.cabpartners.com/news/researc ... pswing.pdf

 

[TexasBred]

Everything around here that's black is passed off as "Angus".

 

[alacattleman]

Everything around here that's black is passed off as "Angus".

they got a little help from those who try and pass em off to,

 

[Jake]

Since I look at this as being a "bold statement" I decided I would put it in bold font for you. I'm curious how you came up with that figure anyway.

I can't find the numbers for you but it was in a beef science class that I had in college that explained the heritability of carcass traits and the amount of time it would take to improve a breeds carcass scores. Where angus score so well compared to many continental breeds such as limis and simmentals and score incredibly better than the majority of bos indicus cattle it would take almost ten generations (20-30 years) of single trait selection to increase the average to the average angus now. If I can find the data somewhere I'll post it for you, if I can't come up with it I guess you can stand over there and call me I liar I'll just have to know the actuality of it.

 

[novatech]

it would take almost ten generations (20-30 years) of single trait selection to increase the average to the average angus now.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Meat quality is considered to be moderate to high in heritability. The AAA promotes the use of high marbling bulls. From what I have read improvements can be made in a relatively short period.

 

[Glenvale]

Genetically improving marbling score is probably a much bigger and longer task than most realise, unless they have seen the estimated correlation behind the EBV’s, which I must say, isn’t well promoted and you’ll probably see why.

Here in Australia marbling is measured on a scale of between 1 and 9, although I don’t know how they correlate to the grading systems in other countries. http://www.ausmeat.com.au/media/3407/be ... nguage.pdf

Here is the relevant quote about the correlation between our marble scores and the IMF EBV from the Agricultural Business Research Institute (ABRI) that, through their Breedplan business, calculates all the EBV’s here in Australia and for many breeds in North America (including Canadian Angus) and the world.

Intramuscular Fat (IMF) EBVs are estimates of genetic differences between animals in intramuscular fat (marbling) at the 12/13 rib site in a 300kg carcase. IMF EBVs are reported as differences in percentage (%) IMF.... Recent research would suggest that 1 marble score is equivalent to approximately 1.5% intra-muscular fat so the variation shown between sires is not that large. This relationship still needs more data to confirm the conversion from marble score to intra-muscular fat.

(Here’s the link to the source if you want to download all the info about Breedplan EBV’s http://breedplan.une.edu.au/booklets/A% ... ete%29.pdf).

I’d be interested to see actual data on estimated conversion rates between IMF and marbling grade for different grading systems- I guess it exists somewhere for Breedplan to reference “recent research”.

Although it’s there if you look hard for it- this conversion estimate is given very little publicity and no-one seems to recognise or talk about what it actually represents. In Australia the Hereford breed average EBV for IMF for 2007 born calves is 0.0.... so although ABRI disclaims that the conversion needs more data, assuming it’s correct- to raise the average marble score by one Aus-Meat grade in a generation we would have to use a sire with an EBV of 3.0. Trouble is, no such sire exists. Check out the 2007 born percentiles and you will see that 1.5 itself is well above the top 1% range. http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i ... 2B3C2B3C3A

Even in the Australian Angus population, by Breedplan’s own estimation all the focus on improving marbling over time has resulted in about half a grade’s improvement since the benchmark figure was set, given the average in the registered population is now 0.8. http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i ... 2B3C2B3C3A. And this is just within the registered portion of the breed- there will be a significant genetic lag in commercial herds.

I don’t know about 10 generations exactly, but within one breed to genetically improve marbling significantly enough to measure the difference in the abattoir will take a long, long time... I’m certainly not saying marbling isn’t important- it is. But with so little scope for timely improvement if you believe the estimates of those who calculate the EBV’s, it makes you wonder why some breeds/breeders place such a large weighting upon it in their selection processes. Many bulls claimed to be high marbling aren’t going to make an appreciable difference in one generation. Perhaps spin in the absence of public knowledge of the estimated association sells.

 

[HerefordSire]

This comment?

Angus bull usage increased from 39 percent to a 55 percent share of all bulls from 1994 to 2008, and nearly 70 percent of commercial cows are now considered primarily Angus.

It's apparently an estimate based on some solid information. They did ask people what breed bull they were using. I guess they just missed you.

Yes, that is the comment Doc posted that caught my attention. I think this is another case of the Angus breed trying to market a product. I am pretty sure there are millions of breeders and ranchers that did not get asked just like myself. Therefore, the information can be safely discarded.