Is this a good idea?

[boondocks]

We rent out some of our fields to a neighbor. He plants corn on some and hay on some. Part of our rent is X number of bales of hay (it usually is a mix of hay from our field and hay from his fields). He just cut hay and was disappointed with the volume, saying it was "thin" this year compared to last (on all fields he hays, not just ours).
He wants to split the costs to spread manure on our hay fields in the hopes of better hay.
Question 1: will spreading manure this year help with next summer's hay also, or is most of the benefit reaped in the first cutting or two after it's spread?
Question 2: dunno where he's getting the manure. Would you have any concern about pathogens? We will turn our cows out on these fields this fall. Just don't know if there's any risk....
This newbie thanks you for your thoughts!

 

[Bigfoot]

If land is as scarce there, as it is here, I'd let him pay it all himself. I wouldn't be scared of the manure. I also think it is acceptable to spread manure anytime.

 

[boondocks]

If land is as scarce there, as it is here, I'd let him pay it all himself. I wouldn't be scared of the manure. I also think it is acceptable to spread manure anytime.

Thanks Bigfoot. He was suggesting we should split the cost because it will supposedly help the soil longer-term, not just this year. (We have a 2 year agreement with him). I think the manure would be from a dairy farm. No health issue with spreading it then a few months later having beefers on it?

 

[jerry27150]

manure should help for 2-3 years anyway

 

[Don McCallum]

I wouldn't pay anything, because he is mining your soil. I would not have him cutting hay on my land, unless a soil test was taken and a legal contract was
signed with him replacing all nutrients to the soil. That is his problem.

 

[boondocks]

Thanks all. Interesting points. He is elderly and so we've just been sort of limping along each year, assuming he will be getting out any time. We had the ag guy out last fall and (as we figured) he said we needed to give certain fields a rest from corn year after year (no duh). In years past, the farmer had rotated crops, but with corn prices the past few years, I think he just figured he'd keep it in corn until we complained.

Still a bit skeptical about the dairy manure---is this really not a concern????

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Still a bit skeptical about the dairy manure---is this really not a concern????

Okay.....if you're concerned,"skeptical" about the dairy manure, then just don't do it. I think you would rest easier if it weren't done. I understand your concern about possible health issues for your cattle.

My opinion......if the stuff has been composted, I sure wouldn't worry about it. If it is in liquid form, from a 'lagoon', I still may not be too concerned, if it were coming from a dairy that I know well.

Katherine

 

[dun]

Still a bit skeptical about the dairy manure---is this really not a concern????

Okay.....if you're concerned,"skeptical" about the dairy manure, then just don't do it. I think you would rest easier if it weren't done. I understand your concern about possible health issues for your cattle.

My opinion......if the stuff has been composted, I sure wouldn't worry about it. If it is in liquid form, from a 'lagoon', I still may not be too concerned, if it were coming from a dairy that I know well.

Katherine

Depending on the area you might not be able to jsut spread it. Some places require if it's liquid to be subsoiled

 

[boondocks]

Still a bit skeptical about the dairy manure---is this really not a concern????

Okay.....if you're concerned,"skeptical" about the dairy manure, then just don't do it. I think you would rest easier if it weren't done. I understand your concern about possible health issues for your cattle.

My opinion......if the stuff has been composted, I sure wouldn't worry about it. If it is in liquid form, from a 'lagoon', I still may not be too concerned, if it were coming from a dairy that I know well.

Katherine

Thanks Katherine. I know there's a long history of composting manure and that it must be fairly safe. I think it's more the wet stuff that would concern me. I will ask him for some details. He has sold off his cattle so our interests aren't aligned (ie, it's not his cattle that'll be put on this pasture in the fall).

 

[boondocks]

Still a bit skeptical about the dairy manure---is this really not a concern????

Okay.....if you're concerned,"skeptical" about the dairy manure, then just don't do it. I think you would rest easier if it weren't done. I understand your concern about possible health issues for your cattle.

My opinion......if the stuff has been composted, I sure wouldn't worry about it. If it is in liquid form, from a 'lagoon', I still may not be too concerned, if it were coming from a dairy that I know well.

Katherine

Depending on the area you might not be able to jsut spread it. Some places require if it's liquid to be subsoiled

We are out in the boondocks (thus my "name") so I doubt there is any regs on that, but he is an oldtimer & has many hundreds of acres he owns or rents, so I guess I can (hopefully) trust that he would know...Sounds like if it's been composted it should not be a problem, either in terms of the law or in terms of pathogens?

 

[alisonb]

Still a bit skeptical about the dairy manure---is this really not a concern????

If I was in your position I wouldn't feel too comfortable with dairy manure being spread over my lands especially if I was putting beefers on it...unless it had under gone a treatment.
Manure is host to many pathogens and treatment will reduce them substantially.

 

[JSCATTLE]

I put chicken litter on my hay field every year . I wouldn't be concerned with the manure on the hay field . I would make sure he's fertalizing for sure . Your hay field is thin because he's robbing nutrients from the ground and not putting it back . You will be money ahead to take the hay pasture back and pay him to roll hay for you . The long term effects of robbing te nutrients can't be fixed in one year .

 

[boondocks]

Thanks Alison and JS. I asked and he said it is liquid, not composted, and it's from a dairy (don't know whose). I think we've decided to compromise by letting him put it on one field, but not the one adjacent where our cows currently are (and where they'll be birthing in 2 weeks).

We are realizing now that we probably should have pushed back harder over the past 10 years and watched his practices a bit more. I think he has been "managing" for the short term. We have finally started to wise up the past year or two.

 

[regolith]

Thanks Alison and JS. I asked and he said it is liquid, not composted, and it's from a dairy (don't know whose). I think we've decided to compromise by letting him put it on one field, but not the one adjacent where our cows currently are (and where they'll be birthing in 2 weeks).

We are realizing now that we probably should have pushed back harder over the past 10 years and watched his practices a bit more. I think he has been "managing" for the short term. We have finally started to wise up the past year or two.

Raw effluent and calving cows don't mix well.
I'll graze dry cows or milkers on effluent paddocks. Not while they're drying down (it increases the risk of mastitis) and not for about two weeks either side of calving (same reason, around calving the mastitis risk increases but also because the high level of potassium available from the manure increases the risk of milk fever). I may be overcautious but I prefer that any paddock grazed in those 'transition' phases hasn't had effluent applied within the last six months.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Johne's but I really don't know whether the pathogen would persist in that state - dairies here apply all their effluent back to their own land so it's not even thought about.

 

[boondocks]

Raw effluent and calving cows don't mix well.
I'll graze dry cows or milkers on effluent paddocks. Not while they're drying down (it increases the risk of mastitis) and not for about two weeks either side of calving (same reason, around calving the mastitis risk increases but also because the high level of potassium available from the manure increases the risk of milk fever). I may be overcautious but I prefer that any paddock grazed in those 'transition' phases hasn't had effluent applied within the last six months.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Johne's but I really don't know whether the pathogen would persist in that state - dairies here apply all their effluent back to their own land so it's not even thought about.[/quote]

Thanks regolith. We sort of went on gut instinct that at a minimum it shouldn't be too near the cows. Glad to see there is support for our concern; as a newbie it's hard to know sometimes...

 

[Chuckie]

Here are my thoughts on manure. If it is just slung dry cow manure... ever walk across you pasture and see the cow manure sitting on top of the ground? That is about all it would be except worse.

Manure from cows is beneficial if it is carried underground. Dung beetles make that happen. If it sits on top of the ground, all you have is small leaf litter after it has been washed away. Look at the grass around it as the pile melts away. Nothing. Watch around a pile as dung beetles carry it under and the earth worms come up to feed on it. You will see a difference in that spot of the grass.

Unless he dumps so much manure on the ground and makes it 2" thick increasing the top soil, then it would help. Otherwise, you just have spots of dumped cow manure sitting on top of the ground. What about the spots that didn't get it. So many cows poop in a pasture, it still doesn't eliminate the need for fertilization. We still have to take soil samples and hit it pretty good to keep the protein up.

He needs to do a soil sample and put the Lime, Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, etc......... All of this. He needs to get the nitrogen up in the hay this year to benefit the cows so he and you won't have to feed as much grain if needed. Good hay can take the place of grain. He is stripping your ground for years to come. I would not rent my land to someone who was not taking care of it. There are too many people out there that will treat it like it was their own.

It still drives me nuts to see someone running a baler in a fescue field with spent seed heads. The protein in that field is so low, all it can be is a filler of seed head stems. The cows won't even eat the grass because they have become long and woody. They do OK if they feed grain with it and the hay is a filler. That is all he is cutting. Just a filler and I would not like it.

 

[jerry27150]

used it for years, where it is spread fresh you will get hay as high as your tractor tires. if I had it I would put it on my whole place. it is god's fertilizer

 

[Chuckie]

How does it register on the soil sample?

 

[Chuckie]

I personally would use the sludge. I have seen the bermuda fields that have been fertilized with it. Here, the sludge was coming from hog barns. The leaves even absorb the nitrogen from the liquid if it is sprayed. But this is from the farmer with the lagoon. I am not sure how you are going to apply it. We have a lot of chicken manure around here too. It is hotter, and smells great. I wouldn't mind having some of that and then pulling a soil sample to see what else I needed to add. It would draw earthworms to your soil to help aerate the ground and fertilize the top soil. The poorer your soil is, that means that you have fewer earth worms.

 

[Lucky_P]

As far as I'm concerned, manure from a dairy should be considered contaminated with the Johne's Disease bacteria until proven otherwise.
M.avium subsp. paratuberculosis can survive in the environment for almost a year, under moist conditions.

Read up here: http://www.johnes.org/biology/survival.html#16

On crop fields, it wouldn't be a major concern for me, but pastures or hay ground...that'd be a big noper.