Is frame getting too moderate?

[Wewild]

Brandonm2

CK PM.

 

[Beefy]

frame size is not getting too moderate.

 

[Brandonm2]

frame size is not getting too moderate.

That was poor wording on my part. I should have said "small" but was reluctant to call a 4 frame score bull "small".

 

[tapeworm]

Good going folks..thank you all!! {Exept for the guy who says he breeds for the showring. LOL}
This is one of the best topics about cattle thats ever been done here. I want to find one or two quoites to talk about more but thank you all. I wish EVERBODY would read these postings and think think think

 

[ollie']

Remember numbers are just a PART of the picture. Be sure to get there early enough to look over the bulls - structural soundness, temperatment, conformation, shoulders TOO big, length, etc.
Good luck. PS nice choice of breed :D

Jeanne, you beat me to it!
All of the numbers in the world aren;t any good if the animal isn;t structurally sound

dun

Good point! BTW in an exotic breed especially , 1 sq in per cwt of ribeye is inadequate to me. 1.2 to a 1.3 would be more acceptable especially at that weight.

Jeanne, I noticed your bull weighing a ton had a 20" rea. What did he have at 1200lbs...15"?

 

[tapeworm]

Ollie: " Weight has more dimensions to it than height."

Exactly ollie!!!! We dont have to have saddlebroke cattle to make money...there aint much eatin from the hocks down!! Far as Im concerned you breeders can cut em off as well as they can at the packing plant
But like sombody else talked about us bull buyers have got to start senidng that message..makes it part our fault. If we keep on buying the tallest fattest suckerbills in the pen what are we telling breeders?? Most of the guys i talk to about efficent cattle are just like that..they talk one thing and then go and buy slick fat and long legs

 

[tapeworm]

I do use rotational grazing - intensively. We have to hay at least 1/4 to 1/3 of our pastures during 1st cutting in order to keep ahead (or even :D ) with it - on NORMAL years (this has been a VERY chalenging year).
Sure, I can run more fat little cows, but, whether I have 30 1000# cows producing a 500# calf or 20 1500# cows producing 750# calves (which I do have - 35 head) means more WORK. Every cow, no matter what size or quality, has to be calved out, has to be bred (AI) has to have shots & run thru the chute, along with more calves to handle at workup - MORE WORK. And noone can even come close to convincing me that 30 small cows eat less than 20 moderate size cows.
Not sure if I'm right, just makes lots of sense to me.

I have a lot of respect for you jeanne..you are sharper about cattle than any easterner Ive ever been around. Just one thing about this posting though. I agree with you about it being more work but we need to be sure everbody understand that you will have more value at weaning if you have 15,000 pounds of 5 wt calves than if you have 15000 pounds of 750s. They had a light load of GOOD 510 pound Angus calves over at Valentine this week that brought 150...ususally you wont get within 20 or 25 dollars of that with the feeder weight cattle weighin 750. That 20 dollars difference on 15,000 pounds amounts to 3000 dollars. To some people that might be worth the extra work if you can do it with the same amount of ground
But your sure right on about one thing...everbody needs to run the COWHERD that fits there country

After we find that cowherd we need to find the bulls to give us what we need in a calfcrop..for some outfits that just means the heavbiest calves at weaning. For others it means finding the feedyard that know what to do with that load of calves..in other words when theyve done all theyll do for us...then find the packers grid or packers bid thatll bring us the most $$ out of that pen of fats. A lot of our success {read PROFIT} is up to that feedyard manager working for us with feeding sorting and selling cattle

 

[dph]

Tapeworm, I think I am missing something. I have those 5 weight calves bringing $765. I have 750 weight bringing $937.50 at 1.25. Did I read your post correctly? Buy the way, I have been by there, that is a nice barn in Valentine.

 

[Brandonm2]

Tapeworm, I think I am missing something. I have those 5 weight calves bringing $765. I have 750 weight bringing $937.50 at 1.25. Did I read your post correctly? Buy the way, I have been by there, that is a nice barn in Valentine.

Tape is right even by your numbers. 15,000 pounds of beef at $1.25/lb is an $18,750 payday. 15,000 pounds of beef at $1.53/lb is a $22,950 payday. Obviously, it pays to take your calves up to 750 pounds in this market if you have the grass for it; but in Tape's example if your land will support either 30 moderate framed cows that wean 500 pound calves or just 20 large frame cows that wean 750 pound calves then the bigger herd of smaller cows is still where the money is at.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Jeanne, I noticed your bull weighing a ton had a 20" rea. What did he have at 1200lbs...15"?

Ollie, We never had him scanned at a younger age. He was always being shown or on display and there was no way we wanted him buzzed bald in two spots. As it was, his hair wasn't grown out completely to have him on display at Ohio Beef Expo after scanning him.
By visual, he had a huge ribeye as a yearling but without scanning - one will never know. And if it's not done during a certain time frame (by breed) it cannot be used as carcass data for the breed assn.

As far as price difference between weights, we rarely see a LARGE ($.20) difference between 5's & 7's, but I sell private treaty & get high market price by the same buyer each year.
But, in some areas & in many cases it may pay, but I sure don't want little cows. I know research has proven that it isn't equal pound for pound the difference of how much a larger weight cow needs in maintenance compared to a smaller wt cow. In other words a 1500# cow doesn't take $1.50 worth of feed compared to $1 worth for a 1000# cow. Did that make sense? :shock: Don't know how the ratio increases (and yes it deffinately costs MORE per pound, just not in equal proportions) Anyway, I've read that somewhere & retained the info because it "pleased" me, and said "you better keep that research info" but - my peabrain can't find it. Also, many meds are "by the head" not by the pound.
Anyone can make any kind of excuse to explain why they breed (or do) what they do. Bottomline, you better like what you have for cows or you probably won't do a great job of caring for them. LOTS OF WORK no matter what shape, color, or size they are.
Oh, and thanks for the compliment! :oops:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Jeanne, I noticed your bull weighing a ton had a 20" rea. What did he have at 1200lbs...15"?

Ollie, We never had him scanned at a younger age. He was always being shown or on display and there was no way we wanted him buzzed bald in two spots. As it was, his hair wasn't grown out completely to have him on display at Ohio Beef Expo after scanning him.
By visual, he had a huge ribeye as a yearling but without scanning - one will never know. And if it's not done during a certain time frame (by breed) it cannot be used as carcass data for the breed assn.

As far as price difference between weights, we rarely see a LARGE ($.20) difference between 5's & 7's, but I sell private treaty & get high market price by the same buyer each year.
But, in some areas & in many cases it may pay, but I sure don't want little cows. I know research has proven that it isn't equal pound for pound the difference of how much a larger weight cow needs in maintenance compared to a smaller wt cow. In other words a 1500# cow doesn't take $1.50 worth of feed compared to $1 worth for a 1000# cow. Did that make sense? :shock: Don't know how the ratio increases (and yes it deffinately costs MORE per pound, just not in equal proportions) Anyway, I've read that somewhere & retained the info because it "pleased" me, and said "you better keep that research info" but - my peabrain can't find it. Also, many meds are "by the head" not by the pound.
Anyone can make any kind of excuse to explain why they breed (or do) what they do. Bottomline, you better like what you have for cows or you probably won't do a great job of caring for them. LOTS OF WORK no matter what shape, color, or size they are.
Oh, and thanks for the compliment! :oops:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Oops, sorry for the repeat. My service disconnected just as I submitted that comment, and it didn't say it went thru so I rehit the submit button.