Interesting if True.
- Thread starter Caustic Burno
- Start date
Help Support CattleToday:
bear
Well-known member
Missouri may now consider legislation to allow teachers with CCW to carry in schools. On the news tonight.
A very interesting read from Russia of all places regarding Gun Control and the second Amendendant.
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/column ... ns_guns-0/
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/column ... ns_guns-0/
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
Dega Moo you articulated your words quite eloquently. And your expressions were worth reading more than once. While I can share portions of your concerns and values, I cannot fully embrace your positions. Not one poster here wants children to be at risk - anywhere.
In my humble opinion, if we give an inch, we will lose much much more. Too many inches have been taken already. If the average pauper can afford ammunition atbtoday's prices, there is none to be had. Store shelves are bare. That message in itself should tell you something about the pulse of American citizens.
If a single mother needs a firearm to protect her family from a stalking kook, she'd best enlist the assistance of family or friends at this point.
People are serious enough to pay rediculous prices for common arms at this point. People who sold arms 20 years ago now are required to have a store front. They've passed law after law to make everything more cumbersome in my lifetime. How could you possibly want more rules? Law abiding citizens are in compliance. They are about to make us all criminals. Once that happens, all is lost.
Don't entertain giving them an inch.
In my humble opinion, if we give an inch, we will lose much much more. Too many inches have been taken already. If the average pauper can afford ammunition atbtoday's prices, there is none to be had. Store shelves are bare. That message in itself should tell you something about the pulse of American citizens.
If a single mother needs a firearm to protect her family from a stalking kook, she'd best enlist the assistance of family or friends at this point.
People are serious enough to pay rediculous prices for common arms at this point. People who sold arms 20 years ago now are required to have a store front. They've passed law after law to make everything more cumbersome in my lifetime. How could you possibly want more rules? Law abiding citizens are in compliance. They are about to make us all criminals. Once that happens, all is lost.
Don't entertain giving them an inch.
I certainly don't have all the answers but....
Number one problem with elementary schools is egress to the building. Yes glass doors can be shot out - but dang I use to frequent some rough neighborhoods in St. Louis where the McD's had bulletproof plexiglass between drive up customers and kid inside passing your food and money. Couple that with security gates and camera's and additional security systems on all outside doors and windows and automated call out to police on any breach and you might have a positive impact.
With apologies to any teachers out there - I'm not sure I trust them all to be armed, but I do wonder if some administration positions could be armed? Obviously it would be possible to hire at each school a security staff. It may be possible to provide safe rooms where teachers and children immediately move in a lock down situation. If they aren't already our teachers colleges should be researching and creating materials to educate and train teachers about these situations, how to recognize, asses and respond to threatening situations. All of teachers should be getting remedial work on these subjects.
All of the above require money - or - parental involvement of some kind. Who says certain parents and grandparents could not be trained to provide school security? After of course an appropriate security check. You got sports boosters everywhere, you have Parent Teacher Associations, parents involved in everything. Why not start a national volunteer program to provide these grade schools physical security by the parents of the students.
Anyone ask how it is that the guy in Arizona, the Aurora killer, the Virginia Tech murderer, this kid in Newtown and this guy who ambushed the firemen were walking around free? I think there was a lot of evidence the first three were dangers to themselves and others prior to their killings. I don't think they should have been walking around. We use to care for our mentally ill and while we had some pretty horrific institutions, it has to be more humane than the carnage those three wrought. I think our state and federal governments can take the lead developing programs and institutions to get these people off the streets.
I believe all three of these guys got their guns legally. So why did the NICS system fail so miserably? Because various states, agencies and doctors failed to send in data and other "institutions" didn't seem to want to be involved in the process. There should be some onerous penalties for not following the law. That needs fixed right now. And the gun show loopholes need closed. And I think private sales really need go through NICS as well. I think gun advocates ought support this effort. It wouldn't prevent illegal gun sales but it would make the illegal buyer work harder to get their guns.
I think the police really had a good idea beforehand of who this guy was who shot the firemen. Hey he murdered his own grandmother with a hammer, did his time and was out on the streets. I think part of the answer here is "you do really really crazy things like kill your grandmother with a hammer, and we believe you." Go to jail, don't get out, at least you don't get out and go back into society to walk around free.
This will sound lame but I really don't know what could have been done to prevent Lanza from getting those guns. At least with hindsight, he should not have been walking around free. It seems to me his mother made a terrible fatal mistake thinking she could control him and protect him or others by home schooling this guy. And by definition, she failed to adequately secure her firearms. I think at best you have an opportunity to educate gun buyers on practices and products useful to adequately secure your firearms.
That's my short list.
Number one problem with elementary schools is egress to the building. Yes glass doors can be shot out - but dang I use to frequent some rough neighborhoods in St. Louis where the McD's had bulletproof plexiglass between drive up customers and kid inside passing your food and money. Couple that with security gates and camera's and additional security systems on all outside doors and windows and automated call out to police on any breach and you might have a positive impact.
With apologies to any teachers out there - I'm not sure I trust them all to be armed, but I do wonder if some administration positions could be armed? Obviously it would be possible to hire at each school a security staff. It may be possible to provide safe rooms where teachers and children immediately move in a lock down situation. If they aren't already our teachers colleges should be researching and creating materials to educate and train teachers about these situations, how to recognize, asses and respond to threatening situations. All of teachers should be getting remedial work on these subjects.
All of the above require money - or - parental involvement of some kind. Who says certain parents and grandparents could not be trained to provide school security? After of course an appropriate security check. You got sports boosters everywhere, you have Parent Teacher Associations, parents involved in everything. Why not start a national volunteer program to provide these grade schools physical security by the parents of the students.
Anyone ask how it is that the guy in Arizona, the Aurora killer, the Virginia Tech murderer, this kid in Newtown and this guy who ambushed the firemen were walking around free? I think there was a lot of evidence the first three were dangers to themselves and others prior to their killings. I don't think they should have been walking around. We use to care for our mentally ill and while we had some pretty horrific institutions, it has to be more humane than the carnage those three wrought. I think our state and federal governments can take the lead developing programs and institutions to get these people off the streets.
I believe all three of these guys got their guns legally. So why did the NICS system fail so miserably? Because various states, agencies and doctors failed to send in data and other "institutions" didn't seem to want to be involved in the process. There should be some onerous penalties for not following the law. That needs fixed right now. And the gun show loopholes need closed. And I think private sales really need go through NICS as well. I think gun advocates ought support this effort. It wouldn't prevent illegal gun sales but it would make the illegal buyer work harder to get their guns.
I think the police really had a good idea beforehand of who this guy was who shot the firemen. Hey he murdered his own grandmother with a hammer, did his time and was out on the streets. I think part of the answer here is "you do really really crazy things like kill your grandmother with a hammer, and we believe you." Go to jail, don't get out, at least you don't get out and go back into society to walk around free.
This will sound lame but I really don't know what could have been done to prevent Lanza from getting those guns. At least with hindsight, he should not have been walking around free. It seems to me his mother made a terrible fatal mistake thinking she could control him and protect him or others by home schooling this guy. And by definition, she failed to adequately secure her firearms. I think at best you have an opportunity to educate gun buyers on practices and products useful to adequately secure your firearms.
That's my short list.
Jogeephus
Well-known member
I'm glad you offered your ideas and I agree with most but do not agree with any knee jerk reactions or any more laws or restrictions placed on gun ownership. We already have laws in place and as you say we just need enforcement of these laws. We need a judicial system that will deliver real punishments and not watered down versions. We need equal justice, I mean why is it that when a police officer or a politician is shot at the punishment for this is far greater than that of an average citizen? Are our lives not as valuable? I think most law abiding gun owners would be in favor for stricter punishment for any and all crimes but the very same people that want to take away our rights are the very same ones who argue for the release of murderers and deviants on our streets before they serve their full sentences.
As for parents in our schools, its not going to work. Adding more targets in gun free zones is not the answer we just need to allow law abiding citizens their right to protect themselves wherever they might be. And as for teachers, teachers are parents too, and most all the teachers I know are very capable. Of course, up north where you have strong unions I can see where you might have a bunch of sorry ones since its hard to cull those not worthy of the job.
As for parents in our schools, its not going to work. Adding more targets in gun free zones is not the answer we just need to allow law abiding citizens their right to protect themselves wherever they might be. And as for teachers, teachers are parents too, and most all the teachers I know are very capable. Of course, up north where you have strong unions I can see where you might have a bunch of sorry ones since its hard to cull those not worthy of the job.
One of the talk radio guys yesterday evening was saying in the FBI report for last year more people were killed by clubs, mallets, and hammers than long guns.
slick4591
Well-known member
highgrit
Well-known member
We need no new laws, we need the laws we have now enforced like they were 100 years ago. Thieves and murderers need killin, and
if a person commits a felony with a gun they get the death penatly. Punish the criminals not the law abiding citizen. Dega mo, whoever you are your not on my side. I pay taxes and own guns, I'am willing to quit paying taxes, but I will never give up my guns.
if a person commits a felony with a gun they get the death penatly. Punish the criminals not the law abiding citizen. Dega mo, whoever you are your not on my side. I pay taxes and own guns, I'am willing to quit paying taxes, but I will never give up my guns.
TexasBred
Well-known member
Caustic Burno":3hptv31a said:
Agree 100% with you here CB. I can think of no reason I need an AR with two 30 shot clips taped together and half dozen more in a rucksack.40 years ago I just had to have one though. But if others feel they need them then more power to them. I'll just keep my shotgun and a good supply of buckshot.
hurleyjd
Well-known member
highgrit said:
Jogeephus
Well-known member
hurleyjd":3q5n5xrw said:
I disagree. The death penalty does work. It keeps them from doing it again and makes room for one more criminal. My father was shot on Christmas Eve by two convicted felons who were supposed to be serving life sentences but were paroled after only serving a small fraction of their sentence for committing the very same crime. They shot my father within three days of their release from prison so how someone can think the death penalty doesn't work really just baffles me. Thankfully, my father wasn't killed, and thankfully my father was as tough as nails and beat the ba$tards with his fists so bad it took two weeks for them to identify them against their drivers licenses. Since these jewells of society had already served their time for the other crimes they had committed it was no surprise when the parole board invited us to their early release after serving only a fraction of their time - on the condition we did not have anything negative to say about their early release. If we did, we were not welcome at their hearing and were told not to come.
As I see it, as long as we continue to release people from prison who have shown they have no place in our society we will continue to have inflated crime rates and gun crimes. Instead of blaming an inanimate object like a hammer or a gun why don't we question the true culprit which is a system that encourages this sort of behavior and allows monsters to walk freely among us. We have plenty of laws on the books, why don't we demand that they enforce these laws and not just the laws that puts money in the government's coffers.
Now for those who think the death penalty is wrong, I would be all for you paying a little extra on your tax bill for the care, recreation and medical treatment of the death row inmates you hold so dear to your heart but in return please allow me to pay a little extra tax for the prison system to put an express lane to the kill room.
skyhightree1
Well-known member
[/quote]
Now for those who think the death penalty is wrong, I would be all for you paying a little extra on your tax bill for the care, recreation and medical treatment of the death row inmates you hold so dear to your heart but in return please allow me to pay a little extra tax for the prison system to put an express lane to the kill room.[/quote]
JO,
Let me know where I can sign up for that im right behind you.
Now for those who think the death penalty is wrong, I would be all for you paying a little extra on your tax bill for the care, recreation and medical treatment of the death row inmates you hold so dear to your heart but in return please allow me to pay a little extra tax for the prison system to put an express lane to the kill room.[/quote]
JO,
Let me know where I can sign up for that im right behind you.
highgrit
Well-known member
The fact is you can't stop all the murderers from killing. But you can stop a criminal that used a gun in a felony, by giving them the death penalty. They will not hurt or kill innocent folks again. It's not just the school shootings we need to stop, it's all crimes especially the ones commited with a gun. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Jogeephus
Well-known member
I agree. The logic, if you can call it that, our government holds toward the death penalty is ridiculus. I think most legal gun owners are in favor of stricter punishments but the government claims the death penalty is not a deterrant. If this is true, (which its not) then how can they say having a nuclear arsenal isn't a deterrant? Or is it only a deterrant when it suits their agenda? :???:
I am quoting myself, but...danl":li333cos said:
When the Jonesboro Ar shooter was arrested for firearms possession, it wasn't because he was a felon in possession of a firearm it was because he was because he had illegal drugs. Also he was with another released convict that had killed his step dad with a crossbow.
I can't understand how convicted killers ever get out. Maybe whoever grants parole should be held liable.
Jogeephus
Well-known member
My sentiments exactly. Our crime statistics may look high compared to other places but if you negated those crimes that are committed by people who should rightfully be behind bars or put to death I know our crime stats would be much lower. So who is to blame? The tiger that is let out of its cage in a playground or the zookeeper who keeps turning the tiger loose. (Remembering of course that tigers can't read and pay little attention to the written law no matter how eloquently the law is written.)
Greg
Well-known member
I have been pondering on how to respond to Caustics original post about Chicago.
Back in 1997 we had a shooting at Pearl H.S. in Pearl Ms.
A 16 year old killed his mother, took a 30-30 deer rifle, loaded up with
ammunition and headed to school. He killed 2 and wounded around 5 students.
When the asst. Principal heard the shootings, he went to his car and retrieved his
.45. The shooter heard sirens and left the high school headed for the Junior High
to shoot more students there. He was met by the asst. principal outside who was
returning to the high school with his pistol. The thug is in prison and no telling
how many lives a armed asst. principal saved by having his pistol in his car.
The question is if the principal was armed in school what would the death and
wounded number be. I am sure it would have been a lot lower than it was.
Chicago has a huge problem. My personal opinion is at least have a competant
principal, asst. principal, or faculty member armed.
Greg
Back in 1997 we had a shooting at Pearl H.S. in Pearl Ms.
A 16 year old killed his mother, took a 30-30 deer rifle, loaded up with
ammunition and headed to school. He killed 2 and wounded around 5 students.
When the asst. Principal heard the shootings, he went to his car and retrieved his
.45. The shooter heard sirens and left the high school headed for the Junior High
to shoot more students there. He was met by the asst. principal outside who was
returning to the high school with his pistol. The thug is in prison and no telling
how many lives a armed asst. principal saved by having his pistol in his car.
The question is if the principal was armed in school what would the death and
wounded number be. I am sure it would have been a lot lower than it was.
Chicago has a huge problem. My personal opinion is at least have a competant
principal, asst. principal, or faculty member armed.
Greg
