I would like your advice on something . . .

[Keren]

I have been posting on these boards for a while and been reading them for a lot longer, and I value all your experience, knowledge and opinions.

I would like your opinions/advice on a situation I find myself in.

A family member has recently bought a property, which contains five sheds in a sort of complex, the main one of which is extremely large (I have the measurements somewhere - if anyone particularly wants to know I can find it). It was originally intended for an intensive poultry production system, which never got off the ground. It has water and power.

The family member is intending to operate some sort of business from the shed/s and has invited me to take part. We have several ideas we are bouncing around, researching and evaluating. Among them are an intensive piggery system, intensive poultry, market garden system and a stud/show cattle preparation centre.

I would like your opinions on the last one - running a stud/show cattle preparation centre. What I am after is your general opinions - for those who have had experience in this sort of thing what are the main points to consider, pros and cons and what is needed to keep it viable. For those who haven't necessarily had experience in this sort of thing, what would you take into account if you were in this situation?

Our experience is not an issue as we (and other family members) have had experience in all the areas we are considering.

The property has not been inhabited for ten years, so it is going to be a project and a half.

I have posted this on the show board also, but I know many of you do not frequent the show board, and I would like to hear a broader range of opinions than what I might find there.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[certherfbeef]

I would like your opinions/advice on a situation I find myself in.

A family member has recently bought a property...

What are your thoughts on this?

The bold face piece of your post is the problem.

 

[cowboy44]

I agree with the problem of a family member, you did not state what relationship, as with all partnerships no matter who it is you need an iron clad contract drawn I have seen more friendships destroyed because of going into business together, take into account all money and labor invested will be on there property, if something happens to that person what will happen to the business. As far as the type of business ,you need to reseach what would be the most in demand in the area you are in, I would think that would be one of the factors aas to your decision

 

[1848]

Choose the one with the least amount of investment with the most potential for profit.

Thanks Dun

I found my other post on the show page :D

 

[1848]

What happened to my post?

 

[dun]

What happened to my post?

Darned if I know. Didn;t see it. Go to the duplicate deleted post and repost it there

 

[S&S Farms]

If it was designed for poultry it might work for pigs depending on how the manure will be handled. Depends on pit size how often you plan to spread manure. In our area yhe egg lating house just don't seem to work for cattle very well. Could be the location on the farms. Several have been turned into housing for goats and sheep.

Now working with family that is a whole nother ballgame :D :D

Jeff

 

[Brandonm2]

Of those options the custom fitter operation would probably be the best bet. I don't have the necessary experience, ability, or knowledge to actually do that myself though. [[IF YOU DO]]then by all means do what you are good at. You REALLY have to be good at it to fit cattle for a living. Dittoe with hogs or chickens. IF you have the knowledge and the ability (and can get all the necessary environmental permits) those CAN BE profitable enterprises. None of these are the kinds of things I would want to learn on the job while investing my own money in. The least difficult would be growing and marketing vegetables; though like any retail business viability is determined by LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. IF you have good soil you can grow organic veggies and make a premium; but if (like most farms) there isn't 2 million people within 18 miles your going to have problems moving the product. If there aren't 100,000 people within 18 miles, you might as well load up your stuff and truck it to a farmer's market. Do what you are already good at and you are lot more likely to be successful at it.

 

[Ryder]

It all seems backwards to me. I think it would make more sense to have a business enterprise you want to get in to and then consider the facilities you need. Not start with facilities and look for a business to put in it.
You could end up getting into something to "fill the slot" you are really not interested in or suited for.

Can you rent it out to someone who has a need for it?

 

[TheBullLady]

I agree with the "family member" association as well as the previous posters. That could be a problem in the long run, as it is very hard to work with family.

You'd have to have a very good following to be able to make a decent living at show calves. It takes years to get a good reputation and get your product out, so it may be a long drawn out procedure. If you can diversify, and maybe do something else on the property that will bring you an income as you get your show cattle business going, it may be a better option.

 

[EKUgrad]

Now everyone don't kill me for saying this, but....

I am not sure if Australia is effected the same as we are here in the states by rising feed prices, inflated real estate prices, inflated fertilize prices, and stable or sometimes falling beef prices or not, but it is my fear that beef (at least for the short term - 5-10 years) may be in for a rough road.

Traditionally beef has been considered a luxury item -- it did not become a common staple (off the farm) until the second half of the 20th century. Per capita beef consumption, I believe, peaked in the 70's. Beef has really enjoyed a good run here in the past decade or so, which has helped bolster land prices in KY despite the big fall of tobacco.

Feed efficiency is the big advantage favoring poultry / pork, and some marginal minority (although a growing minority) is moving from traditional beef environments to goats or even rabbits.

I do not believe that beef production or consumption are going away soon, but I fear that the market will shrink and the profits (for producers) will shrink even further, with us getting squeezed on both ends of the deal.

Unless it represents a large tax writeoff, I would consider doing something that is growing rather than stable or declining.

Just my .02

p.s. I love steak, so I am going to keep on keeping on here, money be da****

 

[Brandonm2]

Now everyone don't kill me for saying this, but....

I am not sure if Australia is effected the same as we are here in the states by rising feed prices, inflated real estate prices, inflated fertilize prices, and stable or sometimes falling beef prices or not, but it is my fear that beef (at least for the short term - 5-10 years) may be in for a rough road.

Traditionally beef has been considered a luxury item -- it did not become a common staple (off the farm) until the second half of the 20th century. Per capita beef consumption, I believe, peaked in the 70's. Beef has really enjoyed a good run here in the past decade or so, which has helped bolster land prices in KY despite the big fall of tobacco.

Feed efficiency is the big advantage favoring poultry / pork, and some marginal minority (although a growing minority) is moving from traditional beef environments to goats or even rabbits.

I do not believe that beef production or consumption are going away soon, but I fear that the market will shrink and the profits (for producers) will shrink even further, with us getting squeezed on both ends of the deal.

Unless it represents a large tax writeoff, I would consider doing something that is growing rather than stable or declining.

Just my .02

p.s. I love steak, so I am going to keep on keeping on here, money be da****

95% of pork producers have gone OUT of the business in the last 20 years and I would not even know HOW to market 200 broiler chickens that I grew out myself. Beef is one of the last livestock businesses that ANYBODY with land and cash can get into without getting permission from your state environmental regulator and you don't have to contract your soul to some corporation for the priviledge of getting in the business. I see more closed chicken houses than operating ones; but IF you want in THAT business I see listings all the time for operational broiler houses.

 

[EKUgrad]

Whoa...

I am with you on both accounts -- I would not do either one -- my post was intended solely as a commentary based on multiple (increasing) reports that are, and have been, circulating in financial circles for some time now.

As far as chicken houses -- the boom in our area came through about 5-7 years ago. I cautioned everyone that I spoke with about jumping in bed with Tyson Foods.... well, guess what... Perdue ended up with a fair share of the contracts after the Tyson deal went sour. It could have gone either way Tyson/Perdue, Perdue/Tyson, but it happens far too often. I suggested that they ask the people further down south (AL, GA, etc) how the deal worked out for them.

My thoughts all along were that this would only last as long as the contractual obligation and tax breaks, after that the companies would move on to new tax breaks and sweetheart deals elsewhere, leaving the farmer holding the bag (which I plan to buy for alternate purposes upon that happening, but that is another matter altogether).

Like I said, I am sticking with beef, but it is a riskier proposition that it was, say, 10 years ago. (slight benefit of hindsight, I know)

 

[novatech]

This business is no diferent that any other.
Start with a market survey. What is the demand in your market area.
If that works out go to a business plan.
Next dertermine how much staying power you have, cash in bank, borrowing power, etc.
And finally, determine how liquid your assets will be if it all fails. How much can you afford to loose.

Keep in mind that very few partnerships actualy work out.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

This business is no diferent that any other.
Start with a market survey. What is the demand in your market area.
If that works out go to a business plan.
Next dertermine how much staying power you have, cash in bank, borrowing power, etc.
And finally, determine how liquid your assets will be if it all fails. How much can you afford to loose.

Keep in mind that very few partnerships actualy work out.

Keren-

This quote by Novatech says it in a nutshell! I will say it in a smaller nutshell, to which, those of the readers of these posts will attest, will probably fall off of their perches, coming from DOC HARRIS!

1- DON'T go into a big operation with family members!

2- DON'T go into a big operation with family members!

3- IF you decide to ignore this GOOD information - get a FIRM of GOOD attorney's BEFORE you consider WHO will have the operative words to make decisions!

DOC HARRIS

 

[Keren]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I am sorry I didn't get back to you sooner - I was away from home for the last week without internet access. It was a bit short-sighted of me to post a new thread asking for advice then bugger off for a week! Apologies.

On the going into business with a family member thing, I am aware of the problems - I was unfortunate enough to experience the demise of a close friend due to these issues. I do know the precautions that must be made and I am not too family orientated to hesitate putting business over family (to an extent obviously). A business is a profit-making organisation and regardless of who your partner is and what your organisation is doing/producing, it must be treated first and foremost as a business.

Thanks again for your responses.

 

[MikeC]

If I assume that BB's have been around for several years and they all have to have C-sections, how are their any around anymore?

 

[dun]

If I assume that BB's have been around for several years and they all have to have C-sections, how are their any around anymore?

Lots of people proficient in C sections I guess. It's not as if they're a naatural nature slected breed.

 

[MikeC]

If I assume that BB's have been around for several years and they all have to have C-sections, how are their any around anymore?

Lots of people proficient in C sections I guess. It's not as if they're a naatural nature slected breed.

Are there any "natural" selected breeds?

I would imagine they are like any other breed. They have bloodlines that have problems and some that don't.

From what I understand, it's the pelvis size that causes the problem and not the BW's. Might be wonderful for terminal use.

How heritable is pelvic size?

 

[DOC HARRIS]

How heritable is pelvic size?

MikeC - Moderate - Same genetics as Calving Ease (10-40), Slaughter Conformation score ( 35-40). Breed traits - British compared to Continental probably have more of an influence than anything else.

DOC HARRIS