Hypothetical scenario

[bball]

Several of the threads on CT have me thinking about something lately, and I was wondering about other folks thoughts on the matter. First, I understand fully, this is NOT likely or realistic; however, the part of me that still has hope in humanity entertains this scenario. So please be patient.
Let's say tomorrow, all of the people(excluding the elderly and legitimately physically/mentally disabled) existing on the govt dole, social welfare, handouts, burnouts, flunkies, junkies, and lazy arses (basically ALL the able bodied folks that choose not to engage in gainful employment; some on CT have referred to them as 'undesirables' or freeloaders) decide to leave that lifestyle and become productive members of society by obtaining a job. Where would they go for work? What would they do? Where Im living, rarely is there a help wanted sign, and when there is one, the opportunity is filled quickly. Our nation has minimized manufacturing/production opportunities by its taxation, legislation and environmental concerns. Small businesses are almost impossible to get off the ground here, and the big boys have taken their factories overseas for obvious financial reasons. The govt isn't in any position to assist, as they did post great depression with programs like TVA, and a host of programs that encouraged agriculture at the small scale farm level. The govt is slowly growing as its(our) debt is rapidly growing. So agriculture is out as a legit option because farming is a corporation now in this nation that no one can compete with due to massive machinary/technology and costs. I truly have no answer for this. The service oriented industry can not sustain them. Sooner or later, something has to be produced. Have we created and perpetuated this situation out of 'necessity'?

 

[greybeard]

It probably seems that way up in the rust belt, but around here, I see 'help wanted' signs all the time, even during this downturn in the oil & gas sector.

 

[bball]

It probably seems that way up in the rust belt, but around here, I see 'help wanted' signs all the time, even during this downturn in the oil & gas sector.

What kind of work? Most money i ever made in my life was hustling my arse off in Texas replumbing trailerhouses back in the 90s under the class action polybutylene lawsuit. Filthy work, couldnt keep good help, but there was cash to be made for a few years. I think TX is interesting in that there seems to be opportunities if a fella wants to chase them. Im just curious is there enough work for so many folks receiving help?

 

[True Grit Farms]

If everyone had to work to eat we wouldn't have an immagration problem. We the people do what we're told by the government. And some of the things the government does is stupid, so what does that make us? I feel like the EPA has caused the majority of the problems in this country.

 

[lavacarancher]

It probably seems that way up in the rust belt, but around here, I see 'help wanted' signs all the time, even during this downturn in the oil & gas sector.

What kind of work? Most money i ever made in my life was hustling my arse off in Texas replumbing trailerhouses back in the 90s under the class action polybutylene lawsuit. Filthy work, couldnt keep good help, but there was cash to be made for a few years. I think TX is interesting in that there seems to be opportunities if a fella wants to chase them. Im just curious is there enough work for so many folks receiving help?

Grey is right. There's lots of help wanted signs around Houston. But NONE of the jobs postings are for CEO's or CFO's. Enough work for everybody???? Not even close. This all started when LBJ was in office and his Great Society was being promoted. He got the ball rolling to change our economic foundation from manufacturing and engineering to a "service" based economy. It has been all downhill from there.

 

[HDRider]

It could be better,,, or,,, it could be worse.

I can't tell if we are getting better or not. Everything I see on the news and read makes me think things are getting worse, but around me, the things I can see for myself, with my family and friends, things are pretty good. I thank God for that ever day.

I simply don't know where this country is headed. We got no mission. We have no direction. Seems we lost our way.

 

[fenceman]

I know you said hypothetical but around here there is no shortage of available work. Finding legal drug free employees is our biggest challenge. And I'll do the work alone before I employ illegals or druggies.
We have seen a similar scenario here with boys coming home from the oilfields. We've enjoyed the good help but know it won't last.
My wife handles the hiring at her job and has exactly the same problem.
There is plenty of people with out jobs because that's the way they want it. I'm a freak I guess . I'd loose my dam mind with nothing to go to do.

To answer your question I believe a man can always find some work. May not be exactly what he wants, and sometimes you have to be willing to make a dime because you can't make a dollar.
If everyone went to work and it cut into my income that would be just fine . at least I wouldn't be breaking mine so they can lay on theirs

 

[WalnutCrest]

There are huge opportunities in the trades.

Society looks down on the trades ... so people don't want to do them.

To wit ... a great friend from HS's younger brother has a route to repair elevators. He told his brother, who then told me, that with current retirement rates and new hire rates, the US would have a shortage of 10,000 people maintaining and repairing elevators in five years. That's a good job!

 

[Ky hills]

I think it probably varies by location, I agree that in most all areas there is work to be found, may not be what is exactly wanted but there are opportunities. Where I live there is an industrial park, has several smaller factories. I don't know this for fact, but have heard that they have a hard time finding filling their employment capacities due to folks not being able to pass drug tests, and just not being dependable to show up to work.
Some areas close by in east Ky, are really struggling, there isn't and never have been a lot of opportunities for work with much upward mobility. Over the years, lots of folks have left to find work. It seems that businesses want to go where other business is and outside of service work, fast foods, there just aren't many options for much over minimum wage. Coal has been the main industry in the east, and that is decreasing. Some folks commute 50 miles or more one way to work in a lot of cases. It's hard for some who don't have reliable vehicles to get to work, they can sometimes carpool.

 

[Rafter S]

If everyone had to work to eat we wouldn't have an immigration problem. We the people do what we're told by the government. And some of the things the government does is stupid, so what does that make us? I feel like the EPA has caused the majority of the problems in this country.

I believe you're right about that. The problem isn't a shortage of jobs, the problem is that too many people want a paycheck but don't want to have to actually show up on time and work for it.

 

[bball]

So far, atleast in the south it seems, there is plenty of work. Folks just aren't interested in doing those jobs when they can stay at home doing nothing and collect from local, state,or federal govt? So, have we allowed this to happen and helped perpetuate this welfare model? And more importantly, how do we fix it?can it be fixed?

 

[bball]

I know you said hypothetical but around here there is no shortage of available work. Finding legal drug free employees is our biggest challenge. And I'll do the work alone before I employ illegals or druggies.
We have seen a similar scenario here with boys coming home from the oilfields. We've enjoyed the good help but know it won't last.
My wife handles the hiring at her job and has exactly the same problem.
There is plenty of people with out jobs because that's the way they want it. I'm a freak I guess . I'd loose my dam mind with nothing to go to do.

To answer your question I believe a man can always find some work. May not be exactly what he wants, and sometimes you have to be willing to make a dime because you can't make a dollar.
If everyone went to work and it cut into my income that would be just fine . at least I wouldn't be breaking mine so they can lay on theirs

I could not agree more. And sometimes you have to swallow your pride and do some types of work you would definitely not prefer.

 

[bball]

There are huge opportunities in the trades.

Society looks down on the trades ... so people don't want to do them.

To wit ... a great friend from HS's younger brother has a route to repair elevators. He told his brother, who then told me, that with current retirement rates and new hire rates, the US would have a shortage of 10,000 people maintaining and repairing elevators in five years. That's a good job!

I have long felt our public school system does an awful job of presenting the trades as a great opportunity for employment. Preach colleges and universities. Not by accident for sure when you look at the number of kids going to colleges, student loans and profits associated with those loans (feels a little rigged to me) especially nowadays when a college degree doesn't guarantee what it used to. Nothing wrong with vocational schools. I know plenty od folks with a small fortune in paper pedigree who are still paying on that masters degree....while I have several friends who make a dam good living working with their hands.

 

[M-5]

Its fairly simple. Plenty of laborer work to be had by Americans in most all towns and cities. First thing that has to happen is get the illegals gone (billions of dollars are sent to mexico every year)then get rid of welfare then you would have people that would have to work to eat. When you are productive and earn your money you will spend money. when money is spent in a community it creates more jobs when those jobs are in demand it creates more and more . Its really not that hard to figure out that when people have a few extra dollars in their pocket they will spend it. The shape we are into is a direct result of illegals, welfare, regulation, and taxes. The free market will right itself if we could get certain people and agency's out of the way. Look at any business today that started out of a garage with 1 or 2 people and how the business became larger. This economy is a business and should be run like one.

 

[Kell-inKY]

Not trying to be a debbie downer, and this does not really address the original question, but

Several large industries shutting down in my area, many shipped to China. Finding a "good" job is all but impossible. While I'm sure Texas is doing fine for now (there's a lot of Texas people here), I don't see how it can last if you have been paying attention. I have literally lost track of the number of closed plants and manufacturers around here, tire plants, paper mills, rail industry, nuclear, you name it. War on coal is also killing Illinois and Kentucky. How are people going to be able to buy a home or new car without good jobs, the "service economy" is not going to do it.

I know they have been throwing around words like unsustainable debt for years but it sure does feel like we are coming up on a tipping point. A couple of weeks ago they had a meeting with the teachers at my wife's school explaining the pension "problem", as in, there is not going to be enough money and something needs to be done. Illinois is even worse.

The only bright spot is the hospitals in our area, they are expanding like crazy to take care of the hordes of sick people hobbling in. I have a decent job but considered a change of pace so I applied for a job at one of the hospitals for maintenance, they required a 2 year technical degree, experience etc. and the pay was $11 an hour, a janitor at a school makes more than that, talk about your greedy corporations.

Interesting concept bball, but I do see the dilemma of people suddenly having to work for the clothes, shelter and food that have been paid for by others who are working. There would be no net change in demand for clothes, shelter, or food, so no job creation there. The only change would be the working people's money would be freed up to do something else, is that enough extra money to create new jobs? I don't know.

 

[M-5]

Not trying to be a debbie downer, and this does not really address the original question, but

Several large industries shutting down in my area, many shipped to China. Finding a "good" job is all but impossible. While I'm sure Texas is doing fine for now (there's a lot of Texas people here), I don't see how it can last if you have been paying attention. I have literally lost track of the number of closed plants and manufacturers around here, tire plants, paper mills, rail industry, nuclear, you name it. War on coal is also killing Illinois and Kentucky. How are people going to be able to buy a home or new car without good jobs, the "service economy" is not going to do it.

I know they have been throwing around words like unsustainable debt for years but it sure does feel like we are coming up on a tipping point. A couple of weeks ago they had a meeting with the teachers at my wife's school explaining the pension "problem", as in, there is not going to be enough money and something needs to be done. Illinois is even worse.

The only bright spot is the hospitals in our area, they are expanding like crazy to take care of the hordes of sick people hobbling in. I have a decent job but considered a change of pace so I applied for a job at one of the hospitals for maintenance, they required a 2 year technical degree, experience etc. and the pay was $11 an hour, a janitor at a school makes more than that, talk about your greedy corporations.

Interesting concept bball, but I do see the dilemma of people suddenly having to work for the clothes, shelter and food that have been paid for by others who are working. There would be no net change in demand for clothes, shelter, or food, so no job creation there. The only change would be the working people's money would be freed up to do something else, is that enough extra money to create new jobs? I don't know.

not true!!! the demand for clothes , tires, automobiles would explode with demand if people were working. The KEY to this whole deal is CASH. Not ebt cards and food stamps. and what would happen if the 12million illegals were not draining the system and like I said sending billions of dollars back to Mexico's economy. plenty of people would open the factories back up is taxes and regulation were to get out of the way.

 

[Rafter S]

Not trying to be a debbie downer, and this does not really address the original question, but

Several large industries shutting down in my area, many shipped to China. Finding a "good" job is all but impossible. While I'm sure Texas is doing fine for now (there's a lot of Texas people here), I don't see how it can last if you have been paying attention. I have literally lost track of the number of closed plants and manufacturers around here, tire plants, paper mills, rail industry, nuclear, you name it. War on coal is also killing Illinois and Kentucky. How are people going to be able to buy a home or new car without good jobs, the "service economy" is not going to do it.

I know they have been throwing around words like unsustainable debt for years but it sure does feel like we are coming up on a tipping point. A couple of weeks ago they had a meeting with the teachers at my wife's school explaining the pension "problem", as in, there is not going to be enough money and something needs to be done. Illinois is even worse.

The only bright spot is the hospitals in our area, they are expanding like crazy to take care of the hordes of sick people hobbling in. I have a decent job but considered a change of pace so I applied for a job at one of the hospitals for maintenance, they required a 2 year technical degree, experience etc. and the pay was $11 an hour, a janitor at a school makes more than that, talk about your greedy corporations.

Interesting concept bball, but I do see the dilemma of people suddenly having to work for the clothes, shelter and food that have been paid for by others who are working. There would be no net change in demand for clothes, shelter, or food, so no job creation there. The only change would be the working people's money would be freed up to do something else, is that enough extra money to create new jobs? I don't know.

not true!!! the demand for clothes , tires, automobiles would explode with demand if people were working. The KEY to this whole deal is CASH. Not ebt cards and food stamps. and what would happen if the 12million illegals were not draining the system and like I said sending billions of dollars back to Mexico's economy. plenty of people would open the factories back up is taxes and regulation were to get out of the way.

And don't forget the labor unions. They haven't exactly helped keep jobs here.

 

[TexasBred]

Good friend has a daughter graduating from the University of Texas in May with a degree in ASTRONOMY. Bet they'll be beating her door down to get her expertise into the company. Her little sister is a soph. majoring in astrobiology. I had to look that one up but its the study of the origin, evolution, distribution, and future of life in the universe: extraterrestrial life and life on Earth. Add two to the unemployed list.

 

[fenceman]

Its fairly simple. Plenty of laborer work to be had by Americans in most all towns and cities. First thing that has to happen is get the illegals gone (billions of dollars are sent to mexico every year)then get rid of welfare then you would have people that would have to work to eat. When you are productive and earn your money you will spend money. when money is spent in a community it creates more jobs when those jobs are in demand it creates more and more . Its really not that hard to figure out that when people have a few extra dollars in their pocket they will spend it. The shape we are into is a direct result of illegals, welfare, regulation, and taxes. The free market will right itself if we could get certain people and agency's out of the way. Look at any business today that started out of a garage with 1 or 2 people and how the business became larger. This economy is a business and should be run like one.

:clap: well said dash

It's there if you look for it. You just have to look. Driving from Florence to lampasas this morning I thought about it. I see thousands of acres of dead live oak trees from the oak wilt.
Myers cedar yard in lampasas will pay 80.00 a cord for all you can bring unsplit. Just cut into 20" pieces. I know many of those landowners.
If I was out off a job I'd be all over that. Wouldn't even think about going to the unemployment office. It's a way of thinking, people give up on themselves and lose their dignity.

 

[M-5]

anyone that wants to make a decent living can be a truck driver. pay is good and with some companies benefits are excellent. The entire industry is struggling to hire drivers. I spent 6 mths last yr trying to hire one driver at a good wage with all benefits. 90% of the applications were reason for leaving last job (DRUG TEST) our world is upside down with drug addicts. I forgot to but DRUGS/ DOPE in my previous diatribe.