Huge lump, possibly staph?

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Lannie

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I'm sorry to be jumping in here with a question rather than an introduction, but I have what I think to be a bad staph infection going on in my cow, and a vet that can't be bothered to come out and look at it (I've never liked this vet anyway - she's always rude and cranky). I've been Googling all afternoon and can't find much, but I saw this forum and decided to join so I could ask someone more experienced than myself for some opinions.

I'm new to cattle, so forgive me if I don't speak all the lingo just yet, OK? I'll just try to explain in plain ol' English.

I have a 2 year old Hereford/Jersey cross heifer that is 5 months pregnant. This will be her first calf (obviously), and one I have been awaiting for years. It's taken us a while to build up to adding a milk cow to our little place. So about 3 or 4 days ago, I noticed she had a rather large, flat, hard swelling on her right cheek, right over the jawbone. It was as large as my hand, fingers extended. I assumed she'd been kicked by our cranky old mare (the heifer tries to steal food from the mare) and didn't think any more about it, but day before yesterday, it had moved farther back, behind her jaw bone, and had formed more of a ball than a flat swelling. I'd say it was about the size of a lemon. Yesterday it was the size of an apple, and today it's about the size of a grapefruit.

We live in ranching country in South Dakota, and I asked one of my neighbors about it today. He said it was probably a bit of chaff or something that got stuck in her gumline and is now infected. But HOLY COW, what an infection that must be. He told me to get hold of the vet, who's retired, but still works part time, so I tried but he's on vacation for a week. The other vet, whom I don't trust as far as I can throw her, told me that normally they give an IV of sodium iodide to get rid of these staph infections (which is what she thinks it is), but that it would cause her to abort the calf, so in this case she wouldn't do that. I guess I should be grateful she was honest about that. I asked what else could be done and she told me to rub Icy/Hot liniment cream on it twice a day. Is that weird or what? But I sent my husband to town to pick some up and we managed to get some rubbed on there. She hates the smell, though, so it was a major trick doing it.

I should also say, although she's tame as a dog, she was traumatized by her halter when we brought her home. Well, we know better, but that's what she thinks, and I can't get near her with it. I have no squeeze chute. The best I can do is a milking stanchion, or a snubbing post. At this point, neither of those options seem viable because the headlock on the milking stanchion will squeeze that lump if she pulls back (and she will if I mess with it), and the same thing with a rope around the neck with the snubbing post. I don't want to hurt her more, or possibly damage her in any way by smashing on that lump. Oh, and it's very hard and no soft spot detectable anywhere on it. I assume one will appear later, as it starts to come to a head?

The vet said the Icy/Hot should help it come to a head, then when it does, we should stab it and let it drain. Not my idea of a fun afternoon, but if that's the thing we need to do, we will. Any suggestions on that part of it?

I'm sorry for being so wordy, but I'm trying to lay out all the facts and not miss something important. If I have missed something, just ask. Oh, duh, what's she been eating? Mostly grass hay right now, and it's some old stuff we had left over from year before last, although it's been kept inside and it's clean. I give her a bit of alfalfa pellets with sunflower seeds on them morning and night, to keep her in the habit of coming in on a regular basis (for when I need to milk her). The grass is just starting to come up, so it's still pretty short and doesn't make up a lot of her diet right at the moment.

Any help or ideas will be appreciated. :D

~Lannie
 
It sounds like an abscess . Some would say to lance it but I would never do that myself as I have always had a vet do it.

You can always hit her with some long acting pen ,it is safe for a pregnant cow and wait for it to "pop" on it's own as it most of the time does.

Is she still eating and does she still have a healthy appetite?

Sorry, I have a great vet and leave anything more complicated to him but MM will probably respond or one of the guys on here that do the lancing themselves. Like I said though, if you don't have experience I wouldn't fiddle with that.

Good luck.......and about the only vet available now she gives all other vets a bad rap.
 
Here's your possibilities:

1) Infection in the bone, known as lumpy jaw or actinomycosis, NOT caused by staph bacteria. Usually starts slowly but anything is possible I guess. Lump would be hard since it's basically an overgrowth inside the bone. This is the one that is treated with sodium iodide.
2) Infection between the hide and the bone (abcess), potentially caused by any various number of bacteria. Could be hard or soft, likely to be hot. Treatable with antibiotics, and should be lanced and drained.
3) Hematoma (giant bruise), probably would be relatively hard, will eventually go down on its own. No need to treat.

Take a peek at the post titled "cow problems for newbies" and look at the pictures of lumpy jaw and abcesses.

The rule of thumb for lumps is -- if it's hard, leave it alone, if it's soft, lance it.
 
Thanks so much, Milkmaid, I should have just come and asked you first! :D

I had already ruled out Lumpy Jaw after Googling it and finding out it was a fungal infection actually in the bone. This is not. It's definitely an abscess.

I tried going to the "problems" thread yesterday, but in my haste, I guess I didn't notice the link inside the post to click to go to the rest of the posts and pictures. I'm much calmer this morning and figured it out. :oops: My cow's face looks just like that Holstein part way down the first page with the abscess, the only difference being my cow's lump isn't even that big yet. Like I said, I'm new to cows, and I love all my animals so much, especially this silly cow, I tend to panic if something is wrong. I always settle down after a while, though.

I spoke to another experienced cattle guy last night on the phone, and he also thinks she got a plum thorn or cactus spine stuck in her cheek (those are the two likely candidates in our pasture) and said it would probably be best to get her in to the vet (the old retired vet, not the one I don't like) after this lump starts to soften somewhat. The retired vet's out of town until next week so maybe by the time he gets back and I can get her in there, it will be ready to be lanced. I don't think I'd want to even try that as hard as it is right now.

Does anybody know whether putting that Icy/Hot salve on it will help it come to a head? Did I mention that in my first post? I forget... That's what the silly vet told me to do. So we went and got some, only to discover that it's just wintergreen oil in a salve base. ARGH! What a waste of money. I have tons of wintergreen essential oil here at the house, and plenty of oils and butters to make salve. Live and learn. Anyway, will putting wintergreen on it (stimulates the blood to the surface of the skin) help bring it to a head and soften it up? Anybody know? I'll keep trying to slather that on her if it will help, but she REALLY doesn't like the smell and it's a job to get it on her.

Thanks so much for the help, guys, you don't know how much better I feel now. I actually feel a little stupid for panicking over such a simple thing, but that's much better than being scared. :D

~Lannie
 
The rule of thumb for lumps is -- if it's hard, leave it alone, if it's soft, lance it.

All I can add to MM's post is that usually as an abscess "matures" it forms a soft spot on the abscess. That is where you need to lance it and try and get the puss out. (hope you have a strong stomach, because its usually very foul smelling)

When you have lanced it and most of the puss is out you can wash it with a 20%hydrogen peroxide that you dilute with an equal part water to really clean the wound out. After that the healing process is usually very quick.
 
Wow, I just came in from feeding everyone (and torturing poor Bandit - the heifer - with more salve), and that lump is only half the size it was yesterday. What's up with that, do you think? Either the antibiotic herbs I had given her, or the wintergreen salve, or just nature taking its course? Still no soft spot anywhere on it, though.

I had forgotten to answer Hillsdown's question about her appetite before - no problems there at all. She still eats voraciously, and appears to have no pain at all while chewing. Her behavior is completely normal in all respects. And about that vet - I've known way too many good vets for this bad one to color my perceptions in any way, except about her. She's useless as far as I'm concerned, but she's only one person. And about the sodium iodide... I TOLD them it wasn't Lumpy Jaw, so I don't know where they got the idea that sodium iodide would work for this. I guess it's a good thing she's pregnant so they didn't talk me into that.

If it doesn't continue to go down and disappear, and actually does need to be lanced, can I just flush it with regular household 3% Hydrogen Peroxide? I have lots of that on hand. Otherwise I guess I could check at the vet supply store next time we go to the "Big City." LOL!

~Lannie
 
Lumpy jaw is actually caused by bacteria (Actinomyces bovis), not fungi. It can be treated with antibiotics in some cases, but the preferred method of treatment is sodium idodide IV. Just FYI.

If your cow's problem is just an abcess... I'd suggest leaving it alone until your good vet gets back from vacation, and then let him deal with it. If you were to put her on antibiotics, she would need to be treated until the abcess is completely gone, and the abcess would not 'come to a head' where it could be lanced. Given your facilities (and her attitude), I suspect treating her with antibiotics would be very difficult to do. It'd probably be much easier on you and her if the lump is left alone for now, and then when your vet gets back he can examine it and do whatever he thinks needs to be done. (Now, if the lump continues to increase in size and interfers with eating or breathing, then you'd need to do something sooner.)

As far as putting the salve on it... I have no idea. Chances are if you leave it alone, it'll come to a head in a week; if you put the salve on it'll come to a head in 7 days. It might or might not speed up the process.
 
Thanks for the additional information, Milkmaid. I apparently got incorrect information from the Cattletoday website. This is what it said there:

Actinomycosis or lumpy jaw produces immovable hard swellings on the upper and lower jawbones of cattle, commonly at the central molar level. It is caused by an anaerobic micro-organism, Actinomyces bovis. The fungus invades tissue through breaks in the lining of the mouth caused by eating rough forage. The tumor-like swellings develop slowly and may take several months to reach a noticeable size.

I thought maybe they knew the difference between a bacterium and a fungus. Bad me. When I Googled further, I do see it's a bacterium. Seems it's a normal inhabitant of the mouth, and only gets out of hand when there's an abrasion or puncture inside the mouth, as with a rough piece of hay, a hard seed, or possibly a plum thorn. ;-)

The lump doesn't feel hot to me, just hard. Maybe it's a little warmer, but I hadn't really noticed that it felt hot at all. Next time I go out I'll check more closely and see if there's a temperature difference. I don't have a thermometer, so I can't tell if she's running a fever, but she's acting OK, and her ears feel normal (that's my version of mom feeling her kid's forehead).

Since today the lump is smaller, I'm going to let it be. Obviously if it gets really big, I'll haul her in to the vet, but even at its biggest yesterday, it wasn't nearly as big as the one in the picture on the "problems" thread. My neighbor that freaked me out about this yesterday called this morning to see if anything had changed, and I told him it was smaller, so THEN he told me that in several of his cows that had this over the winter, they went away on their own with no intervention from him. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed that whatever was irritating her has worked its way back out (on the inside?) and it will start healing now. :nod:

~Lannie
 
Lannie":2j3rjhr8 said:
Thanks for the additional information, Milkmaid. I apparently got incorrect information from the Cattletoday website. This is what it said there:

It should be correct now!
 
Errrr... ummmm... I guess I shouldn't cast aspersions unless I know where they're going to land, eh? :oops: I'm so sorry, Dun! I assume that's your site, or you're an admin or something? Well, chalk it up to my red hair - it sometimes gets the best of me and I blurt stuff out. Well, at least it's fixed now, that's something, right? Having grown up in a large metropolitan area where nobody knew anybody else, and then moving to this area where not only everyone knows everyone else, but they're all related to one another in some way, I had to learn very quickly if I didn't have anything nice to say, to not say anything at all! LOL! I made a remark once about some idiot at the feed store to one of my neighbors and found out he was her cousin. My face was as red as my hair. Fortunately, she thinks he's also an idiot, but still... you'd think I'd have learned by now. :oops:

The good news is that lump is maybe a little smaller still, and it's not hot at all. There's no difference in temperature between it and the surrounding skin. I think it's draining off from the inside somewhere.

~Lannie
 
Lannie":33nc0mqb said:
Errrr... ummmm... I guess I shouldn't cast aspersions unless I know where they're going to land, eh? :oops: I'm so sorry, Dun! I assume that's your site, or you're an admin or something?

Not mine. I sent the link to Macon so he could correct it. He was glad that someone let him know so he could correct it.
 
dun":1zoi1mta said:
Lannie":1zoi1mta said:
Errrr... ummmm... I guess I shouldn't cast aspersions unless I know where they're going to land, eh? :oops: I'm so sorry, Dun! I assume that's your site, or you're an admin or something?

Not mine. I sent the link to Macon so he could correct it. He was glad that someone let him know so he could correct it.

From the Merck Veterinary Manual
"Actinomyces spp are normal flora of the oral and nasopharyngeal mucous membranes. Members of the genus Actinomyces are gram-positive, non-acid-fast rods, many of which are filamentous or branching. Branches are <1 µm in diameter, as opposed to fungal filaments, which are >1 µm in diameter. Several species are associated with diseases in animals. "

It is a bacteria but has some unusual growth characteristics for a bacteria. Most bacteria grow as single cells or loosely associated clusters (staphs) or chains (streps). Actinomyces grows in a branching pattern much like a fungus so that is probably where the confusion started.

Is the lump gone? If you grab it and try to move it, does it slide over the underlying bone? An abscess will, but lumpy jaw will not. Did you rule out that it was not a hematoma (a collection of coagulated blood from an injury)? This would explain why it is going away without any visible draining and the lack of heat in the lump.
 
Thanks, Scrubs. The "myco" in the name threw me, too, and I naturally assumed it was a fungus. That article, when it said fungus, just confirmed what I thought, so I hadn't looked any further at the time.

The lump is much smaller now, and ever so slightly flatter. It's still hard. It's not over the bone anymore. If she stretches her head up (so I can scritch her under the chin), it sits right in the cervical groove (do they call it that on cows, too?) just behind her jaw, and it's slightly moveable. It's still hard, though. So it's not involved in the bone at all - it's in the soft tissue for sure. I originally thought it was a hematoma, but in the first few days it got bigger, then smaller, then bigger again, so I don't think it's that, either. Plus it moved backward. First it was flat on her cheekbone, then it got rounder and moved back behind the bone. I suppose it's possible it could be a hematoma, but I've never seen one that behaved like this. 'Course, I've never had a cow before, maybe that's it. It seems like she looks for trouble to get into. ;-)

~Lannie
 
I thought I'd dredge up this old post and let you all know that the lump was indeed an abcess. Several cow people I know had me convinced it was a hematoma because it was getting smaller, so I quit giving her the antibiotic herbs I had been putting in her feed. Everything tooled along with not much change for a while, then one morning I saw it was twice as big as before, and now it was HOT. I decided to go ahead and let it break and drain, which its now doing. Yuk, what a gooey mess, but it's mostly down now. There's still a hard lump underneath the pus, and as soon as the pus is done gooping, I'm putting her back on the herbs. I've had enough of pus for a while. She's rubbing it all over her shoulder, too. I'm not ashamed to admit that there are only two things that really gag me, one is mucus and the other is pus. Ugh. I could never have been a vet!

Anyway, the mystery is solved. It was an infection. At least now I know it wasn't the horse that kicked her in the face. ;-)

~Lannie
 
Olive leaf and chapparral (whole, dried leaves). Both are safe for pregant or lactating mammals and both are strongly antimicrobial. The chapparral tastes like crap, however, and I have to mix some honey and hot water into the herbs to make a slurry and then mix that in with her alfalfa pellets. I'm sure she'd eat dog poop, if it was mixed into her pellets. ;-)

Actually, I looked at her a few minutes ago, and I might not even have to give her any more of that at all. It's very small now, the lump is almost gone and the pus pocket looks to be empty. I'll give it a couple more days and then decide whether she needs more herbs or not. But I think she's fine now.

Thank you guys so much for helping me through this. She's my only cow and I just love her to bits. :heart:

~Lannie
 
Thank you, this forum solved my problem. I have a 1 month calf, that I am bottle feeding, that has a lump on the side of its face. I could not figure what it was, so I phoned the vet, she told me the cows milk was poisoning the calf ( when the calf was still on the cow) and to tke it off the cow and give it pen. It worked for a while but now its like a lemon. My neighbor and I thought it might be cancer. (we cut it and no pus was there) I read this forum the other day, and from all the info provide, I went and cut it again. Sure enough there was pus and it also had all the charatoristics of a abcess. I doctored the calf and now today it is half the size. Thank you again :D
 
jka300-- "cow's milk was poisoning the calf?" methinks you need to find yourself a new vet if that's the best diagnosis yours has got.
 

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