How much can you breed in bigger rib eye size?

[hornedfrogbbq]

Those of you that have been focused on this for a decade or so, how much can you expect to gain by going to bigger rib eye cattle? Without getting huge in frame size, can you breed in bigger rib eye's in moderate cattle? how inheritable is that trait?

 

[HDRider]

It is a DNA trait.

https://genomics.neogen.com/en/igenity-beef

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

You do not have to have big frame size cows. And yes, it is an EPD in, I believe, most breeds and DNA testing.
IMHO, some breeders have spent too much time the past decade breeding for carcass traits and are failing to LOOK at their cattle for other traits (feet, legs, bone, capacity).

 

[Nesikep]

I'd like to know ribeye stats on mine, one maternal line in particular carries a lot of meat

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Your smaller framed cattle may already have them beat in the REA/cwt category.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

Please let me dial-in this question a bit. I really have a good understanding of the EPD's of ribeye length...and the ultrasound actuals. I am asking a different question: has anyone tried to breed in a larger ribeye?

So everyone is clear if you have not read my earlier posts, we have done no breeding for carcass or ribeye but fertility, balanced growth, moderate frame and wean weight.

Now that we are retaining ownership through the feed yard and getting paid on the value grid, I am focused on improving our scores there. We have focused on feet and fertility and longevity. If you look at many of what we would call great herds, they remain focused on multiple traits. They focus on efficiency/dmi/radg and they focus on fertility and they focus on longevity and about every 4 years they roll in a carcass merit bull. I fully realize there are herds that focus on terminal/prime traits and grades. We are not chasing that. In fact, we believe the big herds that chase that have very terminal herds and horrible feet. Even they are starting to figure out they potentially over-focused, singularly, on carcass traits and their females are undesirable (let alone the phenotype/look).

So....anyone out there trying to have larger ribeye on a balanced basis

So my question is, after we have not focusing on the carcass traits in a large way, has anyone focused on ribeye specifically (not to the exclusion of anything else...but a focus).

 

[Nesikep]

I think it's probably easier to do if you're willing to add other breeds rather than staying within a specific breed... I have a hard time getting something other than Gelbvieh now that I've started down that path.

 

[wbvs58]

Are you talking about improving the REA EPD or actual data as in scans and carcase measurements after slaughter?

Ken

 

[Ebenezer]

Depends on your ability to use EPD selections, what you want the females to look like in the herd and your ability to assist with calving. There is no set answer on this one. But on the other hand a very masculine looking/traits bulls mated to a very feminine looking cow has never been proven to be a bad deal even to the rail. If you want cows to model after a feedlot steer, push the terminal traits on them and see what you get. That was the genius of Larry's L's system; Two line breeding for maximum returns to the commercial producer regardless of the breed you use in the bulls.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

Are you talking about improving the REA EPD or actual data as in scans and carcase measurements after slaughter?

Ken

Actual scans.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I don't know anyone that has specifically bred just to improve Rib Eye - but, that is what the EPD's for RE is for. Pick a bull that gives you the balance EPD's in all other traits that you love, but super excels on REA. It is a hard balancing game - giving you the desired females AND the super heavy muscle. You don't get RE without getting overall muscling. Meat wagons.
Edit: Nesi does a great job in getting RE, but they are not the kind of cattle that "I" like. He gets paid for the meat wagons, and he likes his girls to be meat wagons also. Different market than what I have.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

I don't know anyone that has specifically bred just to improve Rib Eye - but, that is what the EPD's for RE is for. Pick a bull that gives you the balance EPD's in all other traits that you love, but super excels on REA. It is a hard balancing game - giving you the desired females AND the super heavy muscle. You don't get RE without getting overall muscling. Meat wagons.
Edit: Nesi does a great job in getting RE, but they are not the kind of cattle that "I" like. He gets paid for the meat wagons, and he likes his girls to be meat wagons also. Different market than what I have.

That is what we are doing...the path I am trying. I hate to be a bonehead and ask but who is Nesi?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Nesikep - posted above.

 

[Nesikep]

I don't know anyone that has specifically bred just to improve Rib Eye - but, that is what the EPD's for RE is for. Pick a bull that gives you the balance EPD's in all other traits that you love, but super excels on REA. It is a hard balancing game - giving you the desired females AND the super heavy muscle. You don't get RE without getting overall muscling. Meat wagons.
Edit: Nesi does a great job in getting RE, but they are not the kind of cattle that "I" like. He gets paid for the meat wagons, and he likes his girls to be meat wagons also. Different market than what I have.

I'm still tuning the recipe! One of my cows that makes really good, meaty calves actually looks a bit dairy (she isn't), Her full sister is the better looking cow, but this year is the first year I find her calf to be of at least equal quality

Better performing sister


Better looking sister

 

[W.B.]

Those of you that have been focused on this for a decade or so, how much can you expect to gain by going to bigger rib eye cattle? Without getting huge in frame size, can you breed in bigger rib eye's in moderate cattle? how inheritable is that trait?

It depends how much selection pressure you put on any trait. Easiest way to do it is to crossbreed. If you are using straight Angus I think you can do it but how much are you willing to sacrifice? Bigger ribeyes are correlated to bigger mature size and bigger birth weights. I have also observed that larger rib eye type tend to be more terminal in appearance. Like all traits there are outliers out there that beat the antagonisms but sometimes swimming upstream so to speak is hardly worth the bother.

 

[Lucky_P]

not necessarily so...
Look at Green Garden Angus' bulls - they have high REA/high marbling/tenderness in smaller frame, with way above breed average $EN

 

[W.B.]

not necessarily so...
Look at Green Garden Angus' bulls - they have high REA/high marbling/tenderness in smaller frame, with way above breed average $EN

Not trying to start an argument but I don't think those cattle would move this far north and thrive. We are starting on a long cold winter here. One that is likely going to test us all. Those type don't weather the storm so to speak very well.

 

[Lucky_P]

Really?!
Angus cattle can't make it in SD?
Somebody better tell Kelly Schaff, up in ND, that his cattle likely won't weather the storm, so to speak.

 

[W.B.]

I was referring to the Green Garden Angus recommendation. A case of someone merely looking for an argument. I am not and am out on this topic.

 

[Lucky_P]

No, not looking for an argument...I'm sure those SD winters are tough...DIL is from Brookings. Just doubting your claim that the cattle couldn't handle it just like any other Angus cattle.
Central KS winters are likely a bit milder than those Dakota winters, but the N Bar and Sinclair Angus that are so prominent in those Green Garden pedigrees are out of Wyoming and Montana.. pretty harsh winters out there, I'd think.
Not sure where hornedfrogbbq is located, but that frozen semen has been subjected to temps lower than Ma Nature can dish out...anywhere. lol.
Heck, heat stress may be a bigger issue for black cows at hornedfrog's place than winter conditions.