How many folks run AI sired bulls in the commercial sector?

[highgrit]

I was just thinking out loud here and my curiosity got the best of me. I've run two AI sired bulls so far on our herd and neither one produced exceptional calves. I'm sure we didn't pick the best bull available, and I sure didn't pay a exorbitant price. But my best luck so far in picking bulls, has been to go in the pastures and see what our bulls sire looks like. I'm just wondering how the rest of y'all choose a herd bull?
Sure nice to have a couple of cattle threads going on for a change.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I pick the prettiest picture out of the catalog and buy that one.

 

[cow pollinater]

My bulls are all AI sired but I bought them because they themselves were outstanding individuals.
You can't expect magic just because of a pedigree on one half of the equation. If it were that easy we'd all have perfect stock and there would be no point in struggling to improve our cattle.
I don't mean to imply that people are livestock but how many times have you seen a family with six sons where every one of them is a standout? Typically you won't. You might see one that is the epitome of what a male human should be, a few in the middle, and a few that are nothing special. DNA wise it's the same mating on all six but we know from seeing it that that's not reliable and yet with cattle we tend to throw that out the window and expect good genetics to make fantastic cattle every time.
It doesn't matter what the genetic input is, you have to keep the knife sharp or the future of that bloodline won't be.

 

[fitz]

Of my last three, two were AI calves. The last one I kinda bought on the fly and his sire was standing in the pen next to him. Cow pollinater's comments make a lot of sense.

 

[wbvs58]

My bulls are all AI sired but I bought them because they themselves were outstanding individuals.
You can't expect magic just because of a pedigree on one half of the equation. If it were that easy we'd all have perfect stock and there would be no point in struggling to improve our cattle.
I don't mean to imply that people are livestock but how many times have you seen a family with six sons where every one of them is a standout? Typically you won't. You might see one that is the epitome of what a male human should be, a few in the middle, and a few that are nothing special. DNA wise it's the same mating on all six but we know from seeing it that that's not reliable and yet with cattle we tend to throw that out the window and expect good genetics to make fantastic cattle every time.
It doesn't matter what the genetic input is, you have to keep the knife sharp or the future of that bloodline won't be.

Well put CP.
Ken

 

[Dave]

Over the years about half of my bulls will be AI sired. But the guy I get my bulls from will have 24 bulls in the pen and about 6 or 7 will be AI sired. I pick what I think is the best bull. He keeps a sharp knife. Those 24 bulls are out of 400 cows. Their brothers all go to the feedlot as steers.

 

[highgrit]

CP, I like your analogy, thanks and that makes sense. Dave that's about the same way as I've been trying to do on my last couple of bulls. And TT I'm sure that's how you do it, maybe you should try drawing straws for the winner.

 

[wacocowboy]

I have gone to ranches and seen the parents and I have had AI sired and the one I have right now I bought out of a bull sale. I did good with going and seeing the parents, not so good with AI he looked good but left a lot to be desired in the calves, and I don't know yet about the sale bull looks good knows how to breed but just had first calf last week.

 

[kenny thomas]

Two bulls I am using now are ET calves. Cost a lot just to get them on the ground. Cost me a lot also.

 

[cbcr]

With an AI sired bull, you can get closer to some genetics, (sired by) rather than a grandson of.

Too many times, I have seen breeders that do not cut any bull calves and keep them all and sell them for breeding purposes. IMO, I don't think this represents a true breeder. They have no standards or quality control. Their thinking is, someone will buy them.

Just like has been mentioned in other posts, you can take an animal that has what could be determined as a pedigree that is outstanding, but they don't breed like their pedigree.

My Folks used a bull that was from natural service, he really put out some nice calves. Sold him to another farm and they really liked his calves as well.

 

[TexasBred]

I"m gone some crappy calves using AI.....one bull in particular. Everything about the mating looked out of this world "on paper" but the calves were junk.

 

[Jake]

We use AI on our heifers to sync them and use AI sired bulls. However we don't use bulls that I haven't seen in person. Preferably have seen a good sample of progeny from different sources and seen daughters or at a minimum the mother of the bull. I wouldn't use a bull without at least seeing him in person, worked for too long in a bull stud to use something I haven't seen in person.

 

[Bigfoot]

I belive I'm just going to raise my own Bulls from now on. I might change my mind after I've seen a few calves out of my home raised Bulls. I should have some start coming in late February. I've paid some good money for Bulls over the last ten years, most were AI. I just believe I can pick one here that will match them on growth.

 

[Nesikep]

cbcr, Interesting point, and it leads me to something else... All the commercial cattle that are bred to these bulls don't provide feedback to the EPD machine, Their better brothers go back into purebred herds and they report to the breed ass'n..., And I think that's a problem with EPD's and a lot of breeders, purebreds and commercial cattle have different management.

 

[UG]

Over the years I have frequently heard seedstock producers comment that the calves out of their home-raised clean-up bulls are on average better than the calves out of the popular AI sires that they have used. They generally seem surprised and confused on why this is. My thought is that they are picking the top-end of their bull calf crop out of their better cows. These young bulls are the ones that excelled under their management and environment, so it makes sense to me that the calves out of these home-raised bulls perform well.

Another thought is that most of us use AI bulls that were raised under very different management and environment conditions 500 to 1000 miles away. For example, a producer from northern Arkansas, runs cows on endophyte-infected fescue grass, in hot, humid summer conditions. Should we really be surprised when the calves out of the AI bulls from the sandhills of Nebraska and the hard grass country of eastern Montana don't perform so well in Arkansas?

 

[AllForage]

Over the years I have frequently heard seedstock producers comment that the calves out of their home-raised clean-up bulls are on average better than the calves out of the popular AI sires that they have used. They generally seem surprised and confused on why this is. My thought is that they are picking the top-end of their bull calf crop out of their better cows. These young bulls are the ones that excelled under their management and environment, so it makes sense to me that the calves out of these home-raised bulls perform well.

Another thought is that most of us use AI bulls that were raised under very different management and environment conditions 500 to 1000 miles away. For example, a producer from northern Arkansas, runs cows on endophyte-infected fescue grass, in hot, humid summer conditions. Should we really be surprised when the calves out of the AI bulls from the sandhills of Nebraska and the hard grass country of eastern Montana don't perform so well in Arkansas?

Good post UG!!!

 

[backhoeboogie]

My Char bull is sired out of Wyoming Wind. He is absolutely an AI product.

This bull was intended to be an interim bull. All of his calves have been terminal. His calves have done so well I have kept him around. He is runnign with a Brangus bull now. It is very easy to tell which calves came from which bull.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

CP, I like your analogy, thanks and that makes sense. Dave that's about the same way as I've been trying to do on my last couple of bulls. And TT I'm sure that's how you do it, maybe you should try drawing straws for the winner.

Well yeah, if I wanted to get all scientific about it.

 

[OldCowhand]

One of the problems with using AI sired bulls, is that the person selecting the bull for AI may not be selecting for the same traits that the rancher is. It may work out better over the long run, to buy bulls from breeders who are on the same management, selection and marketing page as you are. For what it's worth.

 

[RegCowman]

We cull harder than most people do in the Simmental / Simm influenced realm, but then we expect you to pay more for them. Most Simm bulls in the SE are from show stock, which may be pheno-typically pleasing, yet terrible in the production realm. We dont have show stock. Most of our bulls (80%) are from Embryos -- cows with a proven performance record including their past calves. We do give a price break to young farmers and ranchers in GA. $1000 off any bull in the pen.