How heavy is to heavy of a rider ?

[Stepper]

I was watching a documentry on the civil war and they said that a calvary mount had to weigh 140 lbs or less. Boy that is a little guy ?

I weigh 280 lbs and i ride my horse sometimes up to 10 miles on a trail ride. They are really tired when i unsaddle them. :lol: But they are really well behaved after a good ride. :lol: They will stand there like a statue when i unsaddle them.

I really never gave it much thought but i might be just a little more than they would like to haul arround reckon ? 8)

How much or how heavy of a rider is to much for a horse ? The reason i am asking is because i am fixing to break out a young horse mule. He is about 13 hands, maybe 14 hands and arround 700lbs i would guess. He is just turning 2. Reckon i am to heavy for him ?

 

[oscar p]

I would think you are to heavy for a 13 or 14 hand 700 lb colt. That is just a little over 400lbs differents in the 2 of ya'lls weight. How tall are you? You may look a little goofy rideing a mule that short. If I started him I wouldn't stay on him more than 30 minutes at a time. I'm not pokeing fun at you,it's just my opinion.

 

[Stepper]

oscar p,

No i apprechaite your honesty. :lol: I am 6 foot tall. I know for a fact i would look goofy riding him. :lol: And he probably is not going to get just a whole lot bigger. He might reah a 1000 lbs when he finishs growing.

But i plan on using him to hunt off of in ruff country. I have never broke a mule before but i have a man and his two sons who are going to help me. This man has years of experience on breaking horses and has broke alot of mules also. I had thought about giving the mule another 6 months before starting to breaking him. But according to this guy he says i need to get started breaking him. He said mules are alot harder to deal with than horses.( says they have alot more stamania than a horse.)

 

[Alice]

Stepper,

I don't know from beans about breaking any kind of equine. However, I am a firm believer in instinct...and if your instinct told you right off the get go that you should wait another 6 months, I really think you are probably right.

We have a wonderful horse now that was pressed too hard as a 2 year old. He was being being trained as a cutting horse, and he apparently sustained an injury that ended his career. What's worse, the injury was neglected. He can be ridden as we ride him...just for pleasure. Had he been allowed a little more time and a lot more attention to the injury, he would have been magnificent. His father is Trashadeous...his grandmother Miss White Trash.

I don't know a thing about lineages with horses...but after doing a search, we discovered the horses in our guys background were fabulous and whomever decided to press too hard lost out on a good thing.

However, their loss is our gain. We do love our Slightly Trash.

Anyway, like I said, give the guy a little more time...like you thought in the beginning. Just my 2 cents.

Alice

 

[Stepper]

Alice,

You know after posting this thread and the more i got to thinking about it and exspecially after reading your and oscar p thoughts. I am going to give it a good six more months before putting any weight on him.

What few horses i have broke. Once i have started breaking them, i really like to put some miles on them every day on for at least 3 months and more if i have the time. And to i need to lose some weight. I know 280 lbs is alot of weight for someone who is only 6 foot tall. But it is not all fat, most people think i am lieing to them when they find out that i weigh 280 lbs. And they tell me there is noway that i weigh that. But i would like to get down to about 230 lbs anyway.

And in the mean time i can do a little ground work with this mule and maybe get him a little better prepared. I dont know if you have ever owned a mule. But they are diffinately different than a horse in their way of thinking.

I have had more than one person tell me that a mule only thinks of one thing. And that is how he is going to hurt you next. But i have also herd if you ever get a good mule they are woth their weight in gold to hunt off of.

 

[CodaSpot]

Have you considered training him to drive in the meantime. A few people I know start all of their horses driving, it is a good way to get them going and keep the weight off of their backs. Besides, steering is the same regardless of the handler being on the back or the ground. Just a thought!

 

[chippie]

An equine's back is the last thing to mature. Years ago I raised and showed donkey's and mules. They were started driving at 20 to 24 months, and started under saddle at 3.

They are extremely smart. People think that they are stubborn, but they are cautious and will not do anything they do not understand or that may harm them.

If I were you, if you haven't already done so. Ground drive your mule for about a year. Get him going and teach him to pull a slide. When it is time to ride him, he will know the commands and cues, and the transition to under saddle is smooth. You'll have a versatile animal too.

Re: the Civil War

My son is a Civil War reenactor and history buff. The men back then on average were much smaller than men are now. If you ever have the opportunity to visit a musuem which has a uniform display, you will be surprised how small the uniforms are.

 

[Stepper]

chippie & CodaSpot,

Thoes are real good ideas, I apprechaite the help. You know i was talking to another fella i know who has a mule about the same age as mine and he said he herd on the RFD channel that mules dont physically mature as fast as a horse and that they need to be 3 to 4 years old before you put any weight on their back.

chippie since you use to raise and show mules i could sure use any tips on training and breaking a mule that you could give me.

Thanks again for the ideas.

 

[Alan]

Stepper, just to throw my 2 cents in, I'm about 260 to 270 depending on last nights supper. The young mule is way too small for you. It is also way to young to start under saddle IMO. Along with his back maturing slowly, his knees are most likely not close to being closed (fully developed). I have a QH gelding I ride, he is 15.3 hh and about 1400lbs Doesn't bother him a bit. But the mule I wouldn't start under saddle for another year at least. My gelding I didn't start until he was over 3 yrs old, I didn't want to take a chance on ruining a good trail horse for many years to come because I got in a hurry. When I do start my horses under saddle younger than 3 (never 2 or under), I found a guy that is great with young horses, but the biggest thing I looked for is he only weighs about 130lbs.

As far a the weight limit for calvary personel, I wonder how much had to do with the distance the horses had to cover in a day.

JMO,
Alan

 

[Stepper]

Alan,

I think you are right. But i do like the idea of going ahead and teaching it how to drive. I usually ride a foundation bred quarter horse myself. I have never measured him but just guessing i would say he would go well over 15 hands and is a stout built horse. I think he would make a good ropeing horse although my wife and 11 year old daughter use him to barrel race off of. I know he would go over 1200lbs or probably arround 1400 lbs his self. I am just guessing.

But the last two horses i broke were american saddle bred crossed with a tennesee walking horse. And they were 3 & 4 years old when i broke them out.

The only reason i was wanting to get started so soon on this mule is because i have been told that i should get started on them as soon as possible. I dont know if you have ever broke or owned a mule but there is alot of difference between them and horses. There way of thinking is different and i guess you could say they have more stamina than a horse. I have been told by alot of people they are tuffer than a horse.

This old man who i was talking about who was going to help me break him has really gotten hurt a couple of times breaking mules. But he his self will tell you he is no expert when it comes to breaking a mule.

One thing i firmly beleave about mules are they are alot smater than a horse. They might look funny, but dont let that fool you. They make up for that by being smart. I think that is what makes them so different from a horse to break. I can not say that from experience yet. But i am going to give it a try.

 

[MillIronQH]

Okay... I'm going to go on a tangent.

Mules need to be "started" before the mare stands up after birth. 80% of the mules disposistion will come from his mama. Blind trust is an unknown trait in mules. And... If they don't trust you you will never get them where you want them to be. Mules are born with an instinct for the difference between honesty and BS.

Do your groundwork and spend time with him doing nothing. Get him to the point where he's glad to see you coming. After that saddle training will be easy.Z

 

[Stepper]

MillIornQH,

I started working with him when he was just a few hours old. And he was doing just about like what you are talking about. I mean when ever i walked into the pasture he would come running. He was actually sort of a pest. He would walk up to you and for some reason he always wanted to lay his head on your sholder. My 11 year old girl could pony him arround in the arena. And she would even take her kid saddle that she had out grown and put it on him while ponying him arround.

But after i had him castrated i can not hardly get him to come near me now. Because he was not use to nobody but me and my family. When the vet came out to castrate him. He just went squirrely. The only way we could hold him for the vet to sadate him was to use a nose twitch on him. So that was a bad experience for him.

And i have another problem. Right after he was born i had the mare bred back and got another mule ( a female or i guess you would call it a molly ?) out of her. So it and the horse mule are just about 1 year in age apart.

This molly is as wild as wild can be. I can not even get close to her. But i am going to have to get her to where i can catch her or i am going to loose her. When she gets to big to handle if she stays the way she is now. I wont be able to do anything with her. Mules are something else to work with.

 

[sjr725]

Another thing to keep in mind is years ago (Civil War) not only were people much smaller but horses were as well - have you looked at the saddles & bits from that era - they would barely fit a good sized welsh pony of today. Most horses then were around 14h and probably weighed less than 1000lbs. Since then we have meddled with our horses to make them bigger, stronger and more appealing to the modern eye. this is the main reason for the difference between the appearance of todays quarter horse for example and the mustangs we see at the BLM roundups.

 

[MillIronQH]

Your second paragraph explains the root of your problem with him. Mules do not forget bad or rough treatment. If the vet had taken the time for him to relax and eased up and popped him so he just laid down and took a nap you'd have been okay. The fact that you were part of it just compounds the problem. You're going to have to go back and rebuild that trust one day at a time. It may take a month or six months. I'd also suggest you get him used to being around strangers that are non-theatening until he get's past that issue.

As to the molly mule. was she ever halter broke? If not you better go hunting a real mule pro. If she was there is a safe not real easy way to fix the problem. Get her up and put her in a dry pen. No feed and no water unless she takes it from you. The time of year and the weather will be a good part of determining the time frame. Don't worry about her loosing a few pounds only that she doesn't get overly dehydrated and she not likely to let that happen herself. The longest I ever saw it take for a mule to start meeting it's handler at the gat was eight days. It's about the same with off the range mustangs. Domestic horses usually come around faster.

About your original question.

In my opinion a rider is over weight for the horse when he or she is any more then 10% overweight. Especially if that weight is undisciplined (fat). It actually, within reason, has little to do with the pound to pound ratio of rider to horse.An overweight rider simpley is not efficient. With pack horses and mules used on a regular basis the accepted ratio is 15% of the animals body weight. That's DEAD weight. It sits there and does nothing to work with the horse just shifting slightly back and forth with every step and every terrain change. An overweight rider is worse because whether he or she realizes it or not the shift is greater. Go to a rodeo and study the ruff-stock riders. You won't find anybody carrying an extra pound. If Toro turns left the whole cowboy had better go with him and not leave 20 pounds hanging out to the right. Of course long hours in the saddle on a regular basis mediates this some.Z

 

[Moocow11]

when you break the mule just ride him for about 30 minuets. there is one big plus the mules wont be able to buck as hard . i know when i am on a colt the colt can deffinatly buck and then my dad can hop on and the colt cant buck