HOW BIG A HERD TO MAKE IT A FULL TIME JOB??

[SRBeef]

well someones doin it..............................................lots o people

I agree with you. It CAN be done and with a whole lot less cows and a whole lot less land. But you can't do it the conventional way - unless someone just gave you the land.

Also highly dependent on where you are located.

jmho. Jim

 

[backhoeboogie]

That's a good point boogie.

How about hay sold off the farm? Would that count?

You can sell hay without owning a cow - But you should not put all the fertilizer cost against your herd if you are selling hay. You should not put all the equipment cost against the herd either.

If you are farming and earning an income, you could be losing on cattle and don't know it if you have not broken down the piece parts of your business.

If someone is truly getting by with only $100 expense per cow, my hat is off to them. The cow itself costs more than that to purchase. $1000 cow over 15 years is still an expense that should be reckoned with. Maybe you'll get lucky and get 15 calves out of her that survive and go to market. Free AI service too so that you don't have to figure the cost of a bull etc.

 

[ChrisB]

With today's cost of land, does anybody think that you could drylot cows year-round?

Again there are a lot of variables with that, but on paper I think it makes sense as opposed to buying land for grazing. Even a lot of rent is higher than the cost of feeding a cow through the summer in my area.

 

[Dave]

Free AI service too

They still charge for those straws....

I just know that I am 60 years old and that I have been in this business since my dad gave me a calf when I was 8. I know a lot of people in the cattle business through out WA, OR, ID, NV, CA, and MT. Guys I went to school with. Guys I rodeoed with. And just those I have met in life. I know people who have 1,000s of cows and people with just a few. Everyone that I know who is making their living exclusively off cattle with no outside income has at least 300 cows.

Are there ways to be more efficient. Certainly. I once heard a speaker at a grazing conference talk about unfair advantage. Everybody and every area has something which is an unfair advantage. The secret is to figure out what the unfair advantage is in your area and capitalize on it. It could be free chichen manure for fertilizer. It could be low property or lease prices. It could be high markets to sell or low markets to buy. It could an area where there is little or no winter feeding. Or a source of cheap feed. But blanket statements made across the whole country just don't apply to everyone.

 

[agmantoo]

well someones doin it..............................................lots o people

I agree with you. It CAN be done and with a whole lot less cows and a whole lot less land. But you can't do it the conventional way - unless someone just gave you the land.

Also highly dependent on where you are located.

jmho. Jim

Jim is absolutely correct with his above summary.
I do need to add that no one gave me any land and I do own other land and I have other ventures. I share here my cattle operation that is tracked as a separate entity. The cattle have returned enough income to have paid for the land they graze and more plus all the improvements and at the same time contributed enough retainable heifers to expand from the initial 30 females to the current 106 head of brood stock. My location may be a plus. However, the people around me are more typical of people on this site that doubt what I am saying can be true and they are not interested in making what they deem as drastic changes in the manner they produce their cattle. I do enjoy coming to this site and reading regarding cattle and the production thereof in different locations. I am not trying to convince anyone to do what I do! I am stating that do not take things at face value and I am trying to create an awareness that there is an opportunity to make an unrealized profit. I know how difficult it was for me and I just like to share.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I, for one, enjoy reading your posts agman and look forward to implementing much of what you do when the time comes.

 

[backhoeboogie]

But blanket statements made across the whole country just don't apply to everyone.

Dave, you are absolutely right. Cows per acre varies with the river flood plains versus the hills in this area. 1 acre per cow versus 10 acres per cow makes a huge difference is fence maintenance costs. Wild fires and storms taking out trees and fencing has gotten out of control.

I try to hold my costs to a $20K budget each year. After the drought sell out I am down to 41 veteran cows. There are 17? heifers that should calve before Christmas or else get wheels. Hence, if I am lucky, I'll market 50 calves. Not all this year but I had some hangovers from last year that sold in the spring this year. I used to be tickled to get $500 per calf. If I make $600 this year - you can do the math. I could not live off of that - at the lifestyle I want to live at.

Hence, my post back on page 1 of this thread concurring with ISOM.

It is obvious to me many of the folks here have never been burned out completely. I lost 3 barns and all fences in '90. Equipment was lost. I was lucky I did not lose my house. Everything else was gone. That is expensive to start over from no matter who you are.

 

[JSCATTLE]

Last year I read through agmantoo's post on homesteading today . I broke my place into small pastures with hot wire . I grazed 50 head on 40 acres of rye grass last winter from december 15 until April . With the rain we are getting this year I'm grazing 60 cow calf pairs on 80 acres . With 120 acres of clear cut that I run my cows through for 2 weeks at a time every 6 weeks . Right now i have a months worth of grass ahead of the cows . And my grass has never been thicker . I have 40 acres planted and plan to put that into rotation next year . I realize with drought etc . This won't always work . I have a hay barn I can put 700 rolls of hay in that has 350 in it now . In my area with a annual rain fall of over 50 inches on average if it's dry in the summer it's gonna be a wet winter . So I get one grazing season or the other . I'm still skeptical about weather or not I can make this rotational grazing work but I can say this Ive seen a big difference in my cows and my pasture .

 

[chicken farmer]

In my part of the world I don't know anybody that makes a living on just raising cattle. The people making a living on the farm around here either have chicken houses, turkey houses, or row crop to go along with thier cattle. Which makes sense to me because I think its smart to have diversity in where you get your income. I had an old farmer tell me that his farm goes in cycles some years his cattle carry the farm and some years the chicken houses carry the farm. I think it would be risky to tie all your land and other assests up in just cattle. :2cents:

 

[TexasBred]

well someones doin it..............................................lots o people

Feedlots....and they deal in large numbers and low margins.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Alpacas boys, that's where the money is.

 

[TexasBred]

Alpacas boys, that's where the money is.

:lol: :lol: So the TV commercials say. Confined feeding operations around here would require all the same permitting and oversight as a dairy operation. Cost would be tremendous.

 

[JSCATTLE]

Alpacas boys, that's where the money is.

I thought it was emu's .. Lol from what I hear in my area it's blueberrys . I've been looking at planting about 10 acres . But I'm skeptical about that too.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

In my part of the world I don't know anybody that makes a living on just raising cattle. The people making a living on the farm around here either have chicken houses, turkey houses, or row crop to go along with thier cattle. Which makes sense to me because I think its smart to have diversity in where you get your income. I had an old farmer tell me that his farm goes in cycles some years his cattle carry the farm and some years the chicken houses carry the farm. I think it would be risky to tie all your land and other assests up in just cattle. :2cents:

apparantly you can live off the bonus's alone,,, dealerships owners, daughter and son inlaw,, built six houses and he quit here, to work em.... making money hand over fist and buys a new toy after every grow out

 

[Dave]

In my area IMG absolutely works but not year around. It works April through October when grass is growing. The winter here is too cold and wet for grass to grow. On an average year 75-80% of my pasture is under water. During big flood events 99% is under water. So am I working with the same conditions as others on this board. No. But I can rent that summer pasture land for $20 an acre or less and run a cow per acre during the summer. One of my unfair advantages. So to remain competative I have to find ways to feed cheaper Nov-March. But it has been a long while since I was able to winter a cow for $100 for the winter. So I know that my expenses are well over that figure some people have toss out there.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

making money on cattle aside.... the individual needs to be a jack of all trades ,, from welder mechanic, carpenter. simi Vet and so on... buy good used equipment and strike while the iron is hot,,, any more """if i dont need it,, i dont want it"""

 

[GMN]

I think the question should be, can you make a living strictly from beef farming?

 

[H and H]

There are plenty of people who make their entire living raising beef in one form or another (feedyards, ranches, stockers, etc.). I would say 90% of these fulltime cattlemen come from operations several generations in the making. As for the rest of us, it is a "long row to hoe" to build equity in our business. Like previous posts have mentioned, this is a capital intensive and risky "game" to play. The University of Nebraska Tech College of Ag has a program designed to get students started in the business. They feel the tipping point to a full time operation is 100 head of momma cows. They are not saying you can make your entire living off that number, just a good place to start.

 

[KHereford]

When figuring cow cost I dont look at just what it cost me to make it, but what i could have sold or rented it for. I have forty acres at my house, I pay fot that pasture with my morgage payments with my town job so its not free but I do put a price on it for what I could rent it out for when looking at cost. Same goes for hay. I put up a lot of little fields that the big boys dont have time for and get most of them for free so I have very little in the hay but still figure it into my cows at what I could have sold it for. I think you have to look at it like this and break it down more because you might be loosing money feeding the hay you could have sold. Looking back I wish I would have started by renting ground and and having other people pay me to run there cows. You know what you have in it at the start and you know what your getting out of it in the end. The only risk is the up front rent payments and your not at the mercy of the markets. Yes this is wisdom from Greg Judys book but it makes sense and has made me the easiest money in cattle with the least risk. Unless we all set down at the same tabel and figured cost the same way we cant really compare cow cost, it might look like comparing apples to apples but these apples are coming from different trees with different management. Wouldnt it be cool for everyone to meet at the same tabel from this forum someday? I would just like to put a face on everyone and see everyones cattle in person! By the way I figure around the $.80 mark per day per cow, thats worming, vacs, bull power, hay for 90days, pasture rent and pulling the calf at weaning and shipping him.

 

[midtncattle]

Last year I read through agmantoo's post on homesteading today [/quote

Anybody got a link to this article?