Hoffman Ranch Herefords vs Churchill Herefords experience

[mncowboy]

Just looking for input or experience with either outfit. Both seem to be pretty impressive
Thanks in advance

 

[StrojanHerefords]

There is an old saying, “if you can’t say anything right then don’t say anything at all. That works just about as well as “the customer is always right.” There are deep issues with Hoffman, Churchill and their ilk. I need to take the time to address these issues properly.

 

[StrojanHerefords]

The fancy cattle industry is a lot like Vegas used to be in the glory days. Free food, free booze, a boost to your ego all for privilege of spending way to much money on cattle. With AI and ET being so prevalent often times the same cattle can be bought close to home for a third the money. Like Vegas of old, the cattle industry has a long history of mafia type behavior.
It would probably be best if anyone wants my view on Churchill and Hoffman that they PM me.

 

[mncowboy]

https://www.sconlinesales.com/Bids/AuctionsListing/38436
Pretty impressive

 

[StrojanHerefords]

I wouldn’t rely on the results until you see the heifers show up at their new homes. A few years ago, the Western Livestock Journal reported that several of Hoffman’s high sellers sold to Holden Herefords but those cattle never showed up in Montana. I have seen similar things happen with Angus sales where the high sellers are reported as “bought” by a big name outfit but the progeny never show up at their new home. Yes, I am saying the WLJ publishes sales results that at a minimum they know to be unreliable.

The economics of show heifers is a bit funny. First, most show heifers are bought for kids 4H and FFA projects so you have new and naive buyers coming up each year. They are unburdened by what has been. They don’t have a sense of what things are worth so they won’t bid unless they see other people bid. I was at a sale and there was a heifer that was wasn’t getting much interest at $1,200 so I bid on her. I stopped bidding at I think $1,500 or $1,600 but a couple of new bidders cropped up and that heifer I believe sold for $2,400. Show heifer buyers are also often only interested in one animal with a certain budget. So an auctioneer can identify that figure on an early lot and then know when to stop.
Lastly, it is a bit odd that the heifers were sold as is with no breeding soundness guarantee, no retained interests or flushes retained.

 

[W.B.]

Wow, I guess PT Barnum was right.

 

[wbvs58]

I sampled the Black Angus bull Hoffman Bar None last year and got 3 calves and so far I'm pretty impressed with them, I think I will order some more for next year, they are reasonably priced.

Ken

 

[SPH]

We haven't directly used their genetics nor bought cattle from either operation so I don't have a first hand opinion on their genetics. That being said both programs have a long history and a big customer base so they must be doing something right to be able to have the production sale results and semen sales that they do. The Churchill Sensation 028X bull has been in high demand in the Hereford breed so they must be doing something right.

I see posts on the internet questioning big breeder sale results and my thoughts on that are if you are in the cattle business your goal is to produce a product that will sell for a profit. If you are raising cattle that is not marketable then the problem is not what others are doing but the management decisions that you are making. There is a reason some of these beef programs have been around for multiple generations, its because they are making sound decisions with their operations and breeding cattle that are in demand.

We are dispersing our small herd at the end of this year and have a potential buyer lined up to purchase our bred cows and heifer calves. The biggest thing we have taken away from our conversations is the appreciation to details on how we have managed the herd over the years and the data collection we do. We set up a template they can take over and make breeding decisions going forward with all the work we put in with the herd up to this point. I would imagine larger breeders are doing this on a bigger scale and not putting cull calves on their production sales as their reputation is on the line.

 

[elkwc]

We haven't directly used their genetics nor bought cattle from either operation so I don't have a first hand opinion on their genetics. That being said both programs have a long history and a big customer base so they must be doing something right to be able to have the production sale results and semen sales that they do. The Churchill Sensation 028X bull has been in high demand in the Hereford breed so they must be doing something right.

I see posts on the internet questioning big breeder sale results and my thoughts on that are if you are in the cattle business your goal is to produce a product that will sell for a profit. If you are raising cattle that is not marketable then the problem is not what others are doing but the management decisions that you are making. There is a reason some of these beef programs have been around for multiple generations, its because they are making sound decisions with their operations and breeding cattle that are in demand.

We are dispersing our small herd at the end of this year and have a potential buyer lined up to purchase our bred cows and heifer calves. The biggest thing we have taken away from our conversations is the appreciation to details on how we have managed the herd over the years and the data collection we do. We set up a template they can take over and make breeding decisions going forward with all the work we put in with the herd up to this point. I would imagine larger breeders are doing this on a bigger scale and not putting cull calves on their production sales as their reputation is on the line.

I fully respect you and that is what I used to think. Until I watched several donor groups of 3-6 bulls bring from $4,000.00-50,000. When studying the videos before the sale it was easy too see a huge difference in quality. Some of the bottom bulls should have been castrated. Have seen some of these lower selling bulls listed later as full brothers to the high sellers.

 

[StrojanHerefords]

We haven't directly used their genetics nor bought cattle from either operation so I don't have a first hand opinion on their genetics. That being said both programs have a long history and a big customer base so they must be doing something right to be able to have the production sale results and semen sales that they do. The Churchill Sensation 028X bull has been in high demand in the Hereford breed so they must be doing something right.

I see posts on the internet questioning big breeder sale results and my thoughts on that are if you are in the cattle business your goal is to produce a product that will sell for a profit. If you are raising cattle that is not marketable then the problem is not what others are doing but the management decisions that you are making. There is a reason some of these beef programs have been around for multiple generations, its because they are making sound decisions with their operations and breeding cattle that are in demand.

We are dispersing our small herd at the end of this year and have a potential buyer lined up to purchase our bred cows and heifer calves. The biggest thing we have taken away from our conversations is the appreciation to details on how we have managed the herd over the years and the data collection we do. We set up a template they can take over and make breeding decisions going forward with all the work we put in with the herd up to this point. I would imagine larger breeders are doing this on a bigger scale and not putting cull calves on their production sales as their reputation is on the line.

Who is staying in and who is looking to for the last dollar on their way out? I have seen a lot of dishonest things happen at auctions. I was at an auction this spring and as I look around the crowd I am the only one writing down the sale results. A bull was at $4,900, the auctioneer was asking $5,000, "Forty-nine, Five, Forty-nine, Five thousand, Sold!!! Five thousand." The auctioneer never asked for $5,100. The auctioneer saw a sucker and stuck him for a hundred bucks.

 

[BC]

Who is staying in and who is looking to for the last dollar on their way out? I have seen a lot of dishonest things happen at auctions. I was at an auction this spring and as I look around the crowd I am the only one writing down the sale results. A bull was at $4,900, the auctioneer was asking $5,000, "Forty-nine, Five, Forty-nine, Five thousand, Sold!!! Five thousand." The auctioneer never asked for $5,100. The auctioneer saw a sucker and stuck him for a hundred bucks.

That happens at regular weekly cattle sales too.