Hey, flounder.....

[Karl]

Oltimer, I do not belong to NCBA, I do not belive in their cause either, as I do not belive in what R-calf does. I do not like the NCBA because Packers and the big feeders sit on the damn board and I will not bow down to the big guys, they are just out to make money at my expence and that is something I will not stand for. I do not like R-calf because every time I turn around they seem to drag us through the mud with this BSE crap. Other things I do not agree with is M-ID and COOL. I know your use to reading what SH posts on another board. I do not agree with the packer on some issues as I do not agree with R-calf on some issues. I am not flip floping on anything here. I will stand by what I belive is right. I do not know all the answers to the problems that we are having in this industry with BSE, Japan, Mandatory ID and COOL and all of the other problems we seem to have. One thing I do know is that us bickering back and forth and having packers on one side and R-calfers on the other. The only way we are going to get any thing solved or fixed is if all the cattle producers would just get together as one for the good of the industry. But I know as well as you Oldtimer, It may be along time, if anytime at all before that happens. And thats the sad part about that, we all want to bicker and argue and nothing gets solved. Thats a real problem

 

[msscamp]

The only way we are going to get any thing solved or fixed is if all the cattle producers would just get together as one for the good of the industry.

That will never happen, too many personal and private agendas to ever allow it to happen.

 

[Oldtimer]

Oltimer, I do not belong to NCBA, I do not belive in their cause either, as I do not belive in what R-calf does. I do not like the NCBA because Packers and the big feeders sit on the be nice board and I will not bow down to the big guys, they are just out to make money at my expence and that is something I will not stand for. I do not like R-calf because every time I turn around they seem to drag us through the mud with this BSE crap. Other things I do not agree with is M-ID and COOL. I know your use to reading what SH posts on another board. I do not agree with the packer on some issues as I do not agree with R-calf on some issues. I am not flip floping on anything here. I will stand by what I belive is right. I do not know all the answers to the problems that we are having in this industry with BSE, Japan, Mandatory ID and COOL and all of the other problems we seem to have. One thing I do know is that us bickering back and forth and having packers on one side and R-calfers on the other. The only way we are going to get any thing solved or fixed is if all the cattle producers would just get together as one for the good of the industry. But I know as well as you Oldtimer, It may be along time, if anytime at all before that happens. And thats the sad part about that, we all want to bicker and argue and nothing gets solved. Thats a real problem

Karl- By not belonging to NCBA or R-CALF you join a majority of the cattle producers in the US- as over 90% of the producers belong to neither...But even if you take no organizational stance, I hope you keep yourself updated and open to what is happening in the industry...Years ago I was a proponent of the NCBA and wide open free trade...NCBA convinced me how important that M-COOL was- for us to be able to identify and promote our US beef in a world market if we were to compete- and especially to be able to identify it to the US consumers...Then NCBA did their famous flipflop against M-COOL, and I saw how some of the unrestricted free trade agreements reeked havoc on the economy of our area (especially without M-COOL to even out the playing field )- many of my beliefs changed...

COOL and the access to Canadian captive supply cattle did more to split the cattle industry than anything....When R-CALF came to be I felt they more supported my feelings- altho like you I do not agree with everything they do...

But I definitely support the need for M-COOL- not only as a US producer who believes in order to compete the first thing we need to do is be able to identify our product from those of the 40+ countries we import beef from- especially with the major multinational packers now gearing up to import from major beef producing countries like Brazil-- but also a retired Sheriff and now as City-County Judge I have 35 years experience working with scams, frauds, and shams....The current practice of mislabeling imported beef is nothing but a government supported FRAUD.......

 

[Karl]

Oldtimer- I do keep up to date and keep an open mind to everything that comes up in this industry, as everyone should do. I agree NCBA Flip flops on alot of issues. But I see some problems with M-ID and COOL, I guess nothing is perfect in this world though and yes I think they could be good things. As you seem to be quite knowlegeable on these subjects I ask you this question, If M-ID is to go through then what extent will they go to, will it be slim involment or will they go to extremes such as wanting to know when, where, who, and why you moved your own cattle, and being there when you move your cattle. I guess you could say I'm afriaid of the extremes. I dont like the notion of "Big Brother is Watching" me too much.

 

[Oldtimer]

Oldtimer- I do keep up to date and keep an open mind to everything that comes up in this industry, as everyone should do. I agree NCBA Flip flops on alot of issues. But I see some problems with M-ID and COOL, I guess nothing is perfect in this world though and yes I think they could be good things. As you seem to be quite knowlegeable on these subjects I ask you this question, If M-ID is to go through then what extent will they go to, will it be slim involment or will they go to extremes such as wanting to know when, where, who, and why you moved your own cattle, and being there when you move your cattle. I guess you could say I'm afriaid of the extremes. I dont like the notion of "Big Brother is Watching" me too much.

Karl - if you read the NAIS proposal and timeline (which has been put on hold for now) the final point they propose reaching is that you would need an inspection everytime you moved locations ("pastures"?), comingled your cattle, or changed ownership...Much will depend upon how these are defined...Also all cattle going into interstate transport (culls, feeders, slaughter) will need a computerized veterinary health certificate with the RFID individual animal ID numbers attatched (Can you imagine what a vet will charge for that?) Currently in Montana, we need a brand inspection when we move cattle into another county or change ownership- but not when we move to another location or pasture within the county...Many cattle in this country run in large community pasture situations with several ranchers running in the same pasture...How they will work that is still up in the air- the reason I think it should be left to the states to develop what works best in their area- and to define movement boundaries....

There will definitely have to be an infrastructure of inspectors set up and/or inspection points to do these inspections and enforce it- either a new Federal bureaucracy or a state department...In the brand states, they already have brand inspectors that could do the job (altho I believe they would need many more to handle the time consuming task of recording indiviual ID numbers )- but many areas of the US have nothing........

 

[Karl]

Where can I read the NAIS proposal you have mentioned, I guess I need to catch up on some reading, would like to see what it says. We brand our cattle here and have the inspectors too, I'm still not sure I like the idea of someone knowing where and when I move MY cattle. Maybe its just me but another thing I dont like about this is it seems to take some control of my cattle and give it to the government. May be a good thing might not. I guess We'll see, still I need to read this proposal so maybe we can have a more in depth discussion.

 

[Oldtimer]

Where can I read the NAIS proposal you have mentioned, I guess I need to catch up on some reading, would like to see what it says. We brand our cattle here and have the inspectors too, I'm still not sure I like the idea of someone knowing where and when I move MY cattle. Maybe its just me but another thing I dont like about this is it seems to take some control of my cattle and give it to the government. May be a good thing might not. I guess We'll see, still I need to read this proposal so maybe we can have a more in depth discussion.

Karl- Go to this site and click on the Draft Strategic Plan

http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/abo ... docs.shtml

 

[Karl]

No luck Oldtimer, Clicked on draft strategic plan and the page came up blank :(

 

[Oldtimer]

No luck Oldtimer, Clicked on draft strategic plan and the page came up blank :(

Funny it works for me-- Its a PDF file......

 

[frenchie]

No luck Oldtimer, Clicked on draft strategic plan and the page came up blank :(

Do you have Adobe Reader :?: You likely need it to view it.

 

[Karl]

I must not have adobe or pdf or whatever it is. I pretty new to this computer and internet thing.

 

[frenchie]

I must not have adobe or pdf or whatever it is. I pretty new to this computer and internet thing.

Click on the link you can get it for free

http://www.adobe.com/special/acrobat/ac ... o_reg.html?