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Herfs- white

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iowahawkeyes

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This goes along the same lines as another thread but I didn't want to hijack it. I love Knersie's cattle and can't find many faults at all with his cattle. What I did notice on the bulls was a lot of white down the back. I don't really get too wound up about that, but some people do. What about your opinions?
 

Brandonm22

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I have never understood the preference for the red neck Herefords. White necked or red necked I don't care. Now if I were selling commercial bulls and my buyers told me they preferred red necks, THAT is what I would give them.
 

I luv herfrds

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Personally speaking we like the white down the neck and shoulder.
Like the looks of the old time Herefords.
 

KNERSIE

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I pay it very little attention as you can probably see. I'll select the best bull regardless of how much white he has on his crest.

The original breed standards discriminated as much against red necks as they did against linebacks and red legs. I try to stay true to the original breed standards, but an extra spot of white isn't going to blur my vision.

What I find interesting when talking to longtime breeders is what traits they associated with the superficial markings. Over here they believed a lineback or a cow with flashy white markings milked better for instance. Its all OWTs but still interesting.
 

Herefords.US

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If I had my druthers, I'd prefer having the "traditional" markings of a white mane back to the shoulders (and no further), four white socked feet(no more, no less), etc.

But if a bull came along that had ALL the other qualities I wanted and he also came with a red neck or a line back, I'd use him without reservation.

Color and markings are well down the list of priorities in my selection criteria.

George
 

HerefordSire

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Linebacks do not affect my bids other than to be able to buy an animal cheaper than I normally would and possibly buying more animals than I would normally. However, any white higher than a high sock on the legs takes me out of a bid. Symmetry is always worth a few extra hundred to me such as a feather neck the same on each side. If feathers were symmetric, I would bump my bid up about $500 if I had to. Feathers are worth more to me than anything else other than the color red. The color of red is much more important than white on the back for me. Then I look at REA, IMF, WW, and YW, etc. Actual performance data is not important to me. It allows me to save many thousands while having similar genetics since they numbers are cooked in the books.

I should also add that I have some animals that do not fit this criteria.
 

OLF

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HerefordSire":1ipwzdxv said:
...Symmetry is always worth a few extra hundred to me such as a feather neck the same on each side. If feathers were symmetric, I would bump my bid up about $500 if I had to. Feathers are worth more to me than anything else other than the color red.

Can you explain what feathers are?
 

HerefordSire

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OLF":3swxcjkt said:
HerefordSire":3swxcjkt said:
...Symmetry is always worth a few extra hundred to me such as a feather neck the same on each side. If feathers were symmetric, I would bump my bid up about $500 if I had to. Feathers are worth more to me than anything else other than the color red.

Can you explain what feathers are?

The red marking surrounded by white on the side of the neck usually connected to the red on the top but not necesserily (like a penisula). If they are not connected to the top red (like an island), it is worth an extra hundred or so from me. If it is curled upward (like a question mark), it also becomes more valuable to me.
 

KNERSIE

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HerefordSire":24yozqy3 said:
OLF":24yozqy3 said:
HerefordSire":24yozqy3 said:
...Symmetry is always worth a few extra hundred to me such as a feather neck the same on each side. If feathers were symmetric, I would bump my bid up about $500 if I had to. Feathers are worth more to me than anything else other than the color red.

Can you explain what feathers are?

The red marking surrounded by white on the side of the neck usually connected to the red on the top but not necesserily (like a penisula). If they are not connected to the top red (like an island), it is worth an extra hundred or so from me. If it is curled upward (like a question mark), it also becomes more valuable to me.

Dan, maybe you should give me a detailed list of the criteria you want as well as what their EPDs should be and I'll breed them for you if you are willing to deliver on your extra $ if the markings meet your criteria.
 

Brandonm22

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We had one commercial Hereford where the white on the belly extended up her sides.....almost but not quite to her top line. About a 3/4 beltie in appearance. We just called her "belt" and never thought twice about the goofball markings (which none of her calves ever shared).
 

alexfarms

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HerefordSire":rtm4o2ra said:
Linebacks do not affect my bids other than to be able to buy an animal cheaper than I normally would and possibly buying more animals than I would normally. However, any white higher than a high sock on the legs takes me out of a bid. Symmetry is always worth a few extra hundred to me such as a feather neck the same on each side. If feathers were symmetric, I would bump my bid up about $500 if I had to. Feathers are worth more to me than anything else other than the color red. The color of red is much more important than white on the back for me. Then I look at REA, IMF, WW, and YW, etc. Actual performance data is not important to me. It allows me to save many thousands while having similar genetics since they numbers are cooked in the books.

I should also add that I have some animals that do not fit this criteria.

Fascinating, Captain. And to think that all these years I have always thought the term "feather neck" referred to the strip of white on the top of the neck that resembled a white feather in contrast to the red surrounding it.

I am a stickler for "correct" markings. We always liked the white feather to stop at the hair crown. I believe the association reccommends the white feather go no farther back than where the back rib joins the back, which is nearly the middle of the back. I have a really nice bull calf with extra white, the feather extends beyond the last rib, and I may use him some next year. My late father would not approve. Red feathers on the sides of the neck?...never heard of that one before. I knew a very good, elderly, lifetime Hereford breeder who lamented that he couldn't fix a blaze face on his cattle. I think there need to be standards of some kind for any breed.
 

hillsdown

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OK, here is another question to markings and symmetry..How much more would you pay for a cow if she threw her almost identical markings to her calf every year ?
 

Workinonit Farm

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hillsdown":p997i5up said:
OK, here is another question to markings and symmetry..How much more would you pay for a cow if she threw her almost identical markings to her calf every year ?

I don't know that I would pay any 'more' for that particular trait, but I would think it was pretty nifty ;-) .

Katherine
 

Brandonm22

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hillsdown":3d3pqny4 said:
OK, here is another question to markings and symmetry..How much more would you pay for a cow if she threw her almost identical markings to her calf every year ?

Not one plug nickel more. Now if her calf was always in the top 25% of the herd in weaning ratio, ultrasound scanned in the top 20% of the group, performed well on grass, and matured into productive, phenotypically desirable (for their gender) individuals that were good natured and easy to handle she should be worth at least a $1000 more than the avg cow her age.
 

hillsdown

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She is not a very big cow and weens a really good calf every year, it is funny though that her calves all look like her no matter the sire. I like her for a herf. too bad she she might be going this year. This is her steer this year, and it is kind like looking in a mirror.

Mom


Steer
 

HerefordSire

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KNERSIE":wm2fy68l said:
Dan, maybe you should give me a detailed list of the criteria you want as well as what their EPDs should be and I'll breed them for you if you are willing to deliver on your extra $ if the markings meet your criteria.

Try to breed a strong pedigreed linebred animal with multiple trait leading EPD numbers with a dark red coat, a minor line back, no high waters, feather necks, pigmented nads and eyes, decent eyeset, with zero horns, with symetric markings, and I would say this animal would be way out of my price range if taken to an average sale.
 

HerefordSire

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hillsdown":1e0i5c1p said:
OK, here is another question to markings and symmetry..How much more would you pay for a cow if she threw her almost identical markings to her calf every year ?

Hard to put a number on it...but allot. Much more if a bull did that.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

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I always say, "I don't care if they are purple & polka dotted - just so they are GOOD!" Now, against that saying, I am in the business to make money, sooo - I breed what the buyer pretty much dictates. Which, right now, is still no spotted cattle (Simmental). But, I truly love them.
 

Brandonm22

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HerefordSire":2l4pta1f said:
Hard to put a number on it...but allot. Much more if a bull did that.

Yall are all assuming that HER marking are the markings that are the en vogue of that particular moment. If I don't care for her markings (prefer red necks and she is feathered or vice versa or prefer socks and she has a 3/4 white rear leg and all red front leg or vice cersa) then the persistency of her markings is actually a NEGATIVE. For people who give a rip about the markings, I don't see where it is all that difficult to find a bull with the markings you desire and hope he stamps THAT on to his progeny. A cow whose calves came out marked like her rather than like the bull becomes somewhat less desirable then.
 
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