buckaroo_bif
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2005
- Messages
- 1,291
- Reaction score
- 1
preston39":3exwjqrp said:
AMEN!!!
Heresy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter norriscathy
- Start date
Help Support CattleToday:
AMEN!!!
RichieMaGoo
Well-known member
milkmaid":2wu373zn said:
Eureka! It took me a while to figure out what you were getting at by this question. You're asking how come the picture shows 3 and 4 month old calves while I stated that I've been doing this for [over] a year?
LOL....it's called "turning inventory"- I take new calves in every month, and sell off the older ones.
Do you think if I'd been doing this for 15 years, that you'd see a bunch of 15 year-old steers [oxen] in the picture?
:shock: Awww...we needed a laugh around here.
RichieMaGoo'
Curious as to what milk replacer you use on your bottle calves?
In our area of Kentucky it is had to find unmedicated replacer. Curious as to what area of Kentucky you are in, we are near Bowling Green.
Curious as to what milk replacer you use on your bottle calves?
In our area of Kentucky it is had to find unmedicated replacer. Curious as to what area of Kentucky you are in, we are near Bowling Green.
Crowderfarms
Well-known member
Tom, About the only Milk Replacer I know of that's un-medicated is Uni-Milk.tom4018":103f69ns said:
No Richie. You've said how your calves are so healthy compared to your neighbor's herd of older cows, but you've got bottle calves, and most are still young enough to have immunities from their mothers - did you ask if THEY were vaccinated??? - ever occur to you that they might have some immunity from their dams having been vaccinated?
You aren't dealing with older animals, Richie. There's a reason heifer calves can't be bangs vaccinated before 4 months - their immune systems aren't up and going yet. It wouldn't do a bit of good. My vet quoted me at least 2 months of age before it even makes sense to vaccinate. Otherwise you're wasting your money.
You probably wouldn't see a lick of difference to be vaccinating your calves - but if you were to have older stock - again, keeping that heifer? - you might have a change of opinion.
Regarding the blackleg...covered in a clostridial vaccine. I use a KILLED vaccine. There's no way a killed virus can cause any disease whatsoever. It's killed, after all. All I'm doing is showing my animals' immune systems what the virus looks like, and so if the next time they see it, and it's a LIVE virus - the real thing - their immune systems should respond and eliminate it. If your neighbors' cows came down with blackleg, they didn't vaccinate per label instructions, or else the cows had such poor nutrition their immune systems were unable to respond like they should have.
You aren't dealing with older animals, Richie. There's a reason heifer calves can't be bangs vaccinated before 4 months - their immune systems aren't up and going yet. It wouldn't do a bit of good. My vet quoted me at least 2 months of age before it even makes sense to vaccinate. Otherwise you're wasting your money.
You probably wouldn't see a lick of difference to be vaccinating your calves - but if you were to have older stock - again, keeping that heifer? - you might have a change of opinion.
Regarding the blackleg...covered in a clostridial vaccine. I use a KILLED vaccine. There's no way a killed virus can cause any disease whatsoever. It's killed, after all. All I'm doing is showing my animals' immune systems what the virus looks like, and so if the next time they see it, and it's a LIVE virus - the real thing - their immune systems should respond and eliminate it. If your neighbors' cows came down with blackleg, they didn't vaccinate per label instructions, or else the cows had such poor nutrition their immune systems were unable to respond like they should have.
RichieMaGoo
Well-known member
tom4018":5a7iycje said:
Hi, Tom,
Unfortunately, I am still using the medicated milk replacer- as the calves i have are still being sold at the stockyard. I use Pedigree Gold, from Burkmann. Weaning between 4 and 5 weeks. (O-K...it's usually closer to 5- I feel sorry for them)
Non-medicated milk replacers are indeed rather hard to come by- my solution to this problem is to get some Nubian goats and/or a milking cow. (Not only will this avoid the meds...it'lll save me a HECK of ALOT of moola!)
Once I get going, I intend to produce everything on the farm- milk, grain, etc. (at least my hay is homegrown!)
Nice to see a local here.
Rich
*******************************************
A question for all of you:
(and then I shall cease on this topic, as this forum is not the place for it)
If these vaccines are so great....how come Congress had to make a law exempting the vaccine manufacturers from taking responsibility for the damages their vaccines cause, and taking away your right to sue said manufacturers if you should be injured by one of their vaccines.....and shifting the cost of such damages to we, the taxpayers????
Would you guys and gals do me all a favor? Ask your vets if they vaccinate their own animals- and lets tally the results here. I don't know what the statistics are for vets, but when it comes to humans, 90% of pediatricians don't vaccinate their kids....but they have no problem selling these drugs to you, as a substantial part of their income comes from them.
RichieMaGoo
Well-known member
milkmaid":f0lyx7hk said:
Actually, I do ask- I will not buy a vaccinated animal- even if it will be going to the stockyard. And...as a matter of fact, one of my neighbors who vaccinated and had cows die from blackleg, had 2 cows which were both under 1 year-old die.
Sorry- but I don't buy the idea that the calves have imunity from their mothers- as they are BOTTLE calves- and even though I make sure they get colostrum for four days, wasn't it you who told me that the calves receive no benefit from the antibodies in the colostrum after the first 24 hrs.? So I don't think that calves that I keep till 8 or 9 months of age are still riding the coat-tails of their mommies immunity, since they only receive the benefit of that immunity for 24 hours, when first born. (Ooppsss...no wait..it wasn't you who mentioned that...)
Actually, vaccines, in humans and animals destroy ones natural immunity.
Next time you go to your vet, pretend that you've become a vaccine skeptic and ask him for scientific proof that these vaccines prevent the diseases which they claim to. You may be surprised at what you hear.
Crowderfarms
Well-known member
Richie, I have a question, not pertaining to this post. Are you originally from Kentucky? Your thinking of vaccinations in the fashion you do, reminds me of some of the radical groups that attack the rational behavior of vaccinations.Maybe the Northeast or West Coast?RichieMaGoo":198rmh7p said:
RichieMaGoo":2e7tuclu said:
Both my vets - main and alternate/expensive one - have a solid vaccine program. My main vet does vaccinate all his own animals (runs 40+ "mama cows") and I have had many vaccine talks with him. So chalk that up as two "yes" votes. Or actually three yes-votes, as there's two vets over at the expensive clinic.
I didn't ask if the calf itself was vaccinated before purchase. I asked if the dams - mothers - of those bottle calves you buy have been vaccinated. Betchya they have. Most dairies have a good vaccine program - for a reason. Killed vaccine at dry-off, and/or modified-live a month after calving.
As to the blackleg - I'm not fond of second-hand stories. Things tend to change in the telling. Sure the neighbors may have vaccinated, but did they vaccinate those animals? and when did the animals come down with blackleg in relation to the time the vaccine was given - and who made the diagnosis? I've seen oldtimers (no offense intended, guys!) make some awfully strange diagnosis-es. Stuff that just does not make sense - you want a story, I've got one. LOL. And who told you the animals had blackleg - and did your neighbors blame it on the vaccine they gave?
Vaccines don't work on a stressed animal, and if a person doesn't follow the label directions such as dosage and re-vaccination within a set time-frame, they aren't going to work. Can't go blaming a vaccine for that stuff. And as I've said - most clostridial vaccines are KILLED. Blackleg is a clostridium - and a killed vaccine is not going to cause any disease. Sorry to burst that bubble.
No it wasn't me. The "bottle" part of "bottle calf" only means that they're fed off a bottle - but then you know that. Does not mean they don't get colostrum from their mothers. Does not mean - at least on a dairy - that they are always fed milk replacer. My boss's calves all get "real" milk for several months. Not much different than if they were raised on a cow.
I'm thinking that no-the immunity they receive from the colostrum does not last only 24 hours while it's in their system as you seem to imply. Rather, I'm thinking the immunity they get during the first day(s?) of life lasts them until ~2 months of age when their own immune system has.....whoa, sounds like a good question for my vet, LOL. I'll get back with you on that tomorrow.
preston39
Well-known member
Richie,
PS
I forgot.
If you haven't seen it. You may wish to visit ..."Losing calves" thread under this heading. Very interesting.
PS
I forgot.
If you haven't seen it. You may wish to visit ..."Losing calves" thread under this heading. Very interesting.
Richie If you believe that vaccinating your animals, self or kids or whatever is wrong or will cause them some harm that is your right. On the other hand though you are dumber than a rock! The evidence FOR them is over whelming. The only thing i have ever came across on the contrary is by uneducated whackos trying to push their conspriacy theories on everybody. If you had any kind of sound scientific knowledge in your pretty little head, you have misplaced it and filled the void with a bunch of hippy crap that works fine until there is an actual disease then you find out how quickly the placebo effect wears off.
RichieMaGoo":jqoawusk said:
Hey there - you come here and spout your theories - then you provide nothing to back it up.
If and when you do I will take back the BS flag.
As I stated I have had the opportunity to stand in amidst those who were not going to make it due to disease. I am here because I was vaccinated.
As for animals you obviously did not read my post concerning disease breakout and did not answer my question.
Therefore you are one to be ignored as you appear to be willing to spout and not back it up.
Bez!
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Hey guys/gals, we're wasting our "fingers". Preston, you are EXTREMELY patient! Wow, great response.
Richie is set in his beliefs - wrong, but set, so let it be.
Richie is set in his beliefs - wrong, but set, so let it be.
L Weir
Well-known member
For you information, a child in my state can't go to school without the necessary shots. Plus, the cattle shows that I go to require the animals to have vacinations.
Rustler9
Well-known member
Wow. I can't believe that anyone would want to jeopardize their herd by not at least giving the basic vaccinations. Even my grand father who was a real old timer and was raised on moonshine and tobacco gave black leg shots. It's just too much of a loss to go out have a big, nice yearling down and there's nothing you can do once it hits. As far as vaccinations go we have to do the official calf hood vaccinations to be able to take our cattle to shows and to consignment sales out of state. I also wouldn't want to miss worming my cattle-we pour on twice a year and also put out safe guard worm blocks in between. As a matter of fact we just put out ten blocks a couple of weeks ago. I wouldn't want to be neighbors with some of these folks who don't black leg their cattle. My vet says that the dormant bacteria can live in the soil for forty years and once the right conditions hit there it is. This happened to my dad two years ago. They hadn't had a case of black leg since before I was born and all of a sudden it hit three of his calves-these were five to six months old and still nursing. He wasn't going to black leg vaccinate them as he was about to pull them pull them off the cows and ship them. He is diligent about the shots now.
LonghornRanch
Well-known member
Never mind, I will make a new post.
