Hereford udders

[Ky hills]

In another thread someone stated their experiences about Herefords not milking and having bad udders. I am not disputing that at all certainly that is one thing that they are stereotyped about, and years ago I have had similar issues as well. I think that most breeders have worked to correct those issues and that their are some good productive ones out there.
Here is first calf heifer nursing an August born baby.


This one is coming with her 3rd calf this spring


This an older cow that has had her calf weaned a while and due again in the spring


Another older cow still nursing a late may calf


A 7 year old mostly Hereford with a little ear has had her calf weaned for a month or so


A red baldy first calf heifer nursing a September baby

 

[Ky hills]

A 7 year old BWF calf has been weaned a month or so


A Hereford sired BWF her first calf has been weaned a month or so


A purebred Hereford heifer due in March


A Hereford sired BWF heifer due in March

 

[Ebenezer]

The Hereford breed has never been able to mass produce great, classic udders. Even in sales catalogs and Hereford World there are more cattle pictured with marginal udder type than in average Angus publications. There are exceptions.

The question that haunts all of us in toting an ancestor or current individual or line: are they able to reproduce themselves. Another way to ask it: are they prepotent. Many great animals cannot replace themselves. It's a genetic deal and a search for a needle in a haystack. I would expect lesser quality udders on most Herefords but not to be "bad cows". I'd expect improvement in baldie cows if the Angus bull was not an "udder dud".

 

[Ky hills]

The Hereford breed has never been able to mass produce great, classic udders. Even in sales catalogs and Hereford World there are more cattle pictured with marginal udder type than in average Angus publications. There are exceptions.

The question that haunts all of us in toting an ancestor or current individual or line: are they able to reproduce themselves. Another way to ask it: are they prepotent. Many great animals cannot replace themselves. It's a genetic deal and a search for a needle in a haystack. I would expect lesser quality udders on most Herefords but not to be "bad cows". I'd expect improvement in baldie cows if the Angus bull was not an "udder dud".

I understand what you are saying, I still think though that improvements are being made in those areas. Some breeds have strong suits in certain areas as well as weak points. For instance if you are able to increase milk production exponentially then you are also conversely affecting the overall efficiency.
For what it’s worth modern mainstream Angus have changed exponentially as well in multiple areas and depending on what populations of cattle one is confronted with the udders of many are likely to not be as good in the sense of holding up as long as with a more traditional breed character type. Though the newer generations may milk heavier and wean off larger calves.

 

[Ebenezer]

For what it’s worth modern mainstream Angus have changed exponentially as well in multiple areas and depending on what populations of cattle one is confronted with the udders of many are likely to not be as good in the sense of holding up as long as with a more traditional breed character type. Though the newer generations may milk heavier and wean off larger calves.

Best is the enemy of good. I avoid the overly improved and stay with the proven. A smoother ride. A lesson that is cheaper to learn from others. Most chose to pay for the ride.

 

[Nesikep]

We started off with Hereford cross cattle 30 years ago.. Some had good udders, but most were marginal at best and horrid at worst... It takes generations of culling and work to get back to a decent udder... Couple that with being prolapse prone and often not having great feet, it really pays to invest in better stock from the beginning... I've found it's easier to add a performance trait than it is to remove bad traits

This cow (14 years old) and all her offspring have had above average udders, feet, and never had prolapse issues


They might have left some things to be desired, but at least I didn't have to cull otherwise good cows at early ages

Daughter at 16 years old

 

[T & B farms]

I had an old man tell me at a sale a few years back. All you have to do to catch a Hereford is walk up on her blind side, and step on her prolapse.

I used to think the pinkeye thing on Herefords was a myth, but after this year I know it’s not.
I have 185 weaning calves in one pasture. Pretty close to 50/50 solid black, and bwf. The white face calves have pinkeye 2/1 over the solid blacks.

Don’t get me wrong, I loved my Hereford bulls other than those issues. By far the easiest to handle. Calves grew well, and sold very well.
If I could find some bulls to ai to that wouldn’t hurt my udders, I wouldn’t hesitate to use more Hereford. I have had zero prolapse issues with any of my Hereford cross cows

 

[Ky hills]

I had an old man tell me at a sale a few years back. All you have to do to catch a Hereford is walk up on her blind side, and step on her prolapse.

I used to think the pinkeye thing on Herefords was a myth, but after this year I know it’s not.
I have 185 weaning calves in one pasture. Pretty close to 50/50 solid black, and bwf. The white face calves have pinkeye 2/1 over the solid blacks.

Don’t get me wrong, I loved my Hereford bulls other than those issues. By far the easiest to handle. Calves grew well, and sold very well.
If I could find some bulls to ai to that wouldn’t hurt my udders, I wouldn’t hesitate to use more Hereford. I have had zero prolapse issues with any of my Hereford cross cows

My parents used to run feeder/stocker calves usually the groups at that time were made up of Angus, BWF, and Herefords. My dad used to say if anything was going to happen it was going to happen to a Hereford. Pinkeye, foot problems, overall lack of vigor. My first cows were Charolais that hd been bred up from Herefords, several did have prolapse issues. So I’m not denying any of it. I do think that they have improved on all fronts as breed, but individual genetics are still out there that are problematic . We have treated very little pinkeye this year, it has been limited to calves from one particular Hereford bull, none of our other Hereford calves or BWF have been treated.

 

[Josher]

Maybe someday soon there will be DNA testing for prolapse and pink eye susceptibility. Udder epds are already in place which helps the breed move forward even faster.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

From what I understood, it's not the "Hereford" - but the white around the eyes causes the pinkeye. Although, now that I think about it, I have and have had many of my cows with white on their eyes and I can't say there is any difference. Pinkeye is rare here, but can't say it's the "white faced" cows more than the solid colored.
Prolapse, bad udders and bad feed are heritable, you are correct. The Herefords have been fixing the Pinkeye problem by getting more pigment around the eyes (hmmm - wonder where that came from starting back in the 80's and 90's). :D :D

 

[Logar]

We raised Horned Herf's for many years - it is all in the breeding. We never had an issue and they were also able to withstand minus 40 weather which was a nice thing. We kept them outside year round.

We kept the horns on all the breeders and used weights to turn them down. Made them a real menace to any predators as well

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Eye set has a lot to do with it also..like some of the old bug eyed lines that the grass stems love to irritate..eye starts to run,then the face flies take over ..a good hooded eye set,and lashes...there's a herd of old polled cows close by here ..stay gobby fat year round. Raises decent calves...but have horrible bottle teats ..but this is a old herd that the genetic hadn't been improved on...

 

[Nesikep]

Eye set has a lot to do with it also..like some of the old bug eyed lines that the grass stems love to irritate..eye starts to run,then the face flies take over ..a good hooded eye set,and lashes...there's a herd of old polled cows close by here ..stay gobby fat year round. Raises decent calves...but have horrible bottle teats ..but this is a old herd that the genetic hadn't been improved on...

this calf of mine had really deep set eyes

 

[elkwc]

Our Hereford cows have good udders and teats. I have found that regardless of the breed you need to be selective on teats and udders. We have found some Angus lines with too little milk and others with too much. We strive for a happy medium. I have one reg Angus cow with a borderline udder and teats. She is also a little heavy on milk. I have never had a prolapse issue with Herefords. I do select for pigment around the eyes. And as for pinkeye all of ours this summer were Angus. Our calves on our Hereford cows are among our heaviest for their age. In our environment Angus and Hereford work the best with the fewest issues. We tried a Balancer and he created more issues than our Angus and Herefords.

 

[SPH]

I have to agree with a lot of what elkwc said. Problem udders and prolapse issues these days can be managed and mostly eliminated if you cull problem udders so you don't keep propagating the traits in your herd with any progeny you keep out of a cow with a poor udder and by selecting lines of cattle known for good udder and teat structure when you bring in outside genetics it can be managed. Heavy milking does not always equal good udders either, in fact if you get a tough summer those cows that probably milk a little too heavy usually are in the roughest condition at weaning because they use so much energy milking. There is no perfect udder but being selective for structure while maintaining adequate milk can be accomplished if you make it part of your selection and cull processes. Prolapse usually can be traced back to certain bulls too and culled out, hasn't been an issue for us for awhile now as we basically have culled any lines we came across that consistently had a prolapse issue.

As for pinkeye, talking with our vet it was a bad year for it this year apparently in our area. We vaccinate for it before we turn out for breeding season and have not had many cases of it the past several years but had a late summer break out of it this year that unfortunately cost a couple bull calves to go blind in 1 eye. I don't feel it's a breed specific issue either, the neighbor just down the road has mostly black cattle and 1 year we had no eye issues while they had a lot including having to pull one of their black angus bulls out of the pasture because he probably couldn't see anything as bad as his eyes were. The ironic thing is everyone says you want Herefords that have eye pigment as that supposedly prevents eye issues but I can tell you ironically that seemed to be the exact opposite for us this summer. Had 1 cow with heavy pigment on 1 eye and none on the other and the one with the pigment was the eye she got pinkeye in. Same seemed to be true with the calves, the ones with more pigment seemed to be the ones that had it the worst. Maybe it was just dumb luck, who knows but did find that odd given that the stereotype out there that pigment = less eye problems.

We're going to try a new protocol next year that our vet recommended to us that he did some trial tests on some various herds this past summer., One combination that he seemed to have the best results included giving a vitamin shot right after birth to the calves then 2 different drugs before turning out. Don't have the name of the products on hand at the moment but wrote them down when talking with him last week when he was preg checking cows. He says he feels that pinkeye usually starts with the calves who don't have immunity built up for it and it spreads to the cows next so building up that immunity with the calves is the best way to keep it contained. The calves will get some of that immunity from their mother's colostrum so they probably get more of the immunity from the cow having built up the immunity over the years with their vaccinations than they do the actual pinkeye vaccine directly. He said when it comes to pinkeye just as soon as you think you get it figured out and have a good run of little to no eye issues the drugs you are using start to become less effective against new strands of it and you are back to the drawing board with a new protocol once you have a bad summer of it again.