As Brahman derivative breeds are "cleaned up", reducing the sheath, navel, and dewlap, does heat tolerance suffer? I posed this question some time ago, but I don't believe I was fully understood. Animal Science 101 and beef texts teach that the excess skin of the Brahman is responsible for dissapating heat. It works like a radiator or like the engine fins on a lawn more engine. The more surface area, the more heat loss an animal experiences. So, in an effort to "clean up" a Brangus, Beefmaster, or Santa Gertrudis to the point that they are phenotypically like a British or Continental breed as far as looseness of hide is concerned, have we lessened their ability to tolerate heat? I have seen some Brangus cattle, bulls in particular, that are so clean that they look almost like an Angus. Any ideas on the matter?
Heat Tolerance
- Thread starter J. T.
- Start date
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Walt-Txwalt":ycdqx6ua said:
If I understand your meaning here, you are stating that the dewlap is the only "excessive" bit of hide for the dissipation of heat that the "cow (female) has, therefore - by not having the sheath or naval excessive loose hide - the extra hide is NOT for the purpose of dissipation of heat? Or am I reading you incorrectly? It is a fact that the loose, hanging dewlap, sheath and naval on cattle assist them in tolerating high heat and humidity. Adequate water intake is absolutely nesessary for heat normalcy, animal or human!
DOC HARRIS
Your reading me incorrectly. I agree with your point but obviously its not the only reason that Brahman cattle can dissapate heat. I would still wager that the example given Brahman can still handle heat better than his British or Continental counter part. I happen to think that J.T.'s assesment is correct. I just thought I would point out that Cows don't have these extremeties. You have shown me that they have an equivalent.
Walt
Walt
vs_cattle
Well-known member
good question I dont know much on the topic but now I want to know
novatech
Well-known member
J. T.":3924wfsi said:
Looks to me like you have answered your own question. I agree with you.
There is one other trait that brahmans have to disapate heat. Bos indicus sweat, bos taurus do not.
Next question: if the ability to dissapate heat is in direct correlation to looseness of hide, should breeders of the American breeds strive to maintain this trait? Sheaths on bulls would be of concern due to possible prepuce injury. However, in my very unscientific opinion, I would think loose hide is necessary in these breeds. Of course, the more they look like a Brahman the harder hit they receive at sale time if calves are marketed at the local sale barn. I understand that this a major incentive to clean up the hide.
I have noticed on more than one occasion, that my Chars will be "wet" on hot days. Especially on the neck and shoulders.
Haven't done any research on it but you would have a hard time convincing me that my cows don't sweat, which must aid in their cooling.
On Brahma, I think that ears are the main heat dissapators(sp?).
Haven't done any research on it but you would have a hard time convincing me that my cows don't sweat, which must aid in their cooling.
On Brahma, I think that ears are the main heat dissapators(sp?).
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
I have cows that are not Bos Indicus influence and I have Brangus with is 3/8, half brahman crosses with herfs, Chars etc. There is absolutely a difference in heat tolerance. There is absolutely a drop in milk production for cows that do not have Bos Indicus influence. I have watched cows pant in misery in 100 plus degree heat while bos indicus influenced cows didn't pant.
Hence, no matter what is said about these animals, seeing is believing.
Our whitetail are not as big as those in the mid-west. They import the big bucks and feed them year round on local game preserves. These animals don't do what they do in the natural wild, without feed, just 500 miles north. That should tell someone something about this heat.
Hence, no matter what is said about these animals, seeing is believing.
Our whitetail are not as big as those in the mid-west. They import the big bucks and feed them year round on local game preserves. These animals don't do what they do in the natural wild, without feed, just 500 miles north. That should tell someone something about this heat.
backhoeboogie":3bb0oa0c said:
I am NOT disagreeing; but most of those "high fence" reserves I am familiar with are stocking their deer at a higher rate than one would find normally. That AND they want to grow out the biggest racked bucks as fast as they can so their clients can harvest their $3999 trophy. To grow out deer as fast as you can and as big as you can requires added nutrition.
Santas and Duhram Reds
Well-known member
IN the Summer time the Bos Indicus influenced cattle we have lose more hair and have a slicker coat than our British and Continental/European based breeds. Excessive skin is not the only trait that influences heat tolerance of these breeds.
We own 2 Beefmaster cows that we run with our Santa herd and I do not understand why but they seem to be less tolerant than our Santas. They will pant on a hot day while our Santas are fine, and they are not carrying any more conditioning. My dad has a theory that it is due to their Hereford blood. They are also two of our looser hided animals. We just keep them around b/c they are functioning cows that produce a baby every year. We never keep any of their stock.
We own 2 Beefmaster cows that we run with our Santa herd and I do not understand why but they seem to be less tolerant than our Santas. They will pant on a hot day while our Santas are fine, and they are not carrying any more conditioning. My dad has a theory that it is due to their Hereford blood. They are also two of our looser hided animals. We just keep them around b/c they are functioning cows that produce a baby every year. We never keep any of their stock.
fourstates
Well-known member
Another interesting trait I notice in my Beefmaster cattle is storing fat in their dewlap. I believe that the hump in the brahman serves the same purpose. I believe this is mother natures way of survival in a part of the world that has long very severe droughts.
I also know that my Bos Indicus cattle kept their condition better during our 4 year drought, than my neighbors.
Now with plenty of rain, plenty of grass, several of my gals are packing a suitcase of fat reserves up front.
I also know that my Bos Indicus cattle kept their condition better during our 4 year drought, than my neighbors.
Now with plenty of rain, plenty of grass, several of my gals are packing a suitcase of fat reserves up front.
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
most bos tarus cattle have to dissapate heat during the night time. and it takes it for their body temps to return to normal. i noticed my angus bull is staying in the shade more this year [as two year old] than as a year'lin last year. and it has'nt been a humid.
"When it's hot, it's the big fat black cattle that you have to be really careful with," she says. "The dark coat absorbs more heat, and they become too hot more quickly. If you do end up working cattle later than morning, don't be working the black ones. You might get by by working some Brahma crosses in mid-day = the ones that can stand the heat better. Sometimes you have to work cattle all day, but the ones that can stand it the best are the ones you should worlk last when it's hot."
According to Grandin, "Another problem, regarding heat stress, is cattle that are not acclimatized. If you take some mountain-raised Angus from Idaho, for instance, to Texas or the Midwest, to a feedlot, they would be very prone to heat stress and might suffer some death loss. It becomes very crusical how you handle these."
Temple Grandin has a Web site, http://www.grandin.com, where some of these things are addressed under "Audit Form - Welfare of Cattle in Feedlots."
According to Grandin, "Another problem, regarding heat stress, is cattle that are not acclimatized. If you take some mountain-raised Angus from Idaho, for instance, to Texas or the Midwest, to a feedlot, they would be very prone to heat stress and might suffer some death loss. It becomes very crusical how you handle these."
Temple Grandin has a Web site, http://www.grandin.com, where some of these things are addressed under "Audit Form - Welfare of Cattle in Feedlots."
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
ive seen some black cattle drop like a rock when herding them up in hot weather. you can kill em quick bunching them up and no air circulating
I love generalitys! The neighbors gerts hunt shade just like our bos taurus cows. Some of the reds pant in the heat, some of the blacks don;t, all of the blacks slick off most of the reds do too. Any time of the day some of each color may be out grazing while the others lay up in the shade. The calves from the non-panters also seem to handle the heat better and make better replacments.
But that's more generalitys
But that's more generalitys
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
i believe most any of them would prefer shade. then standing out in the heat of the day. bra influanced or not. main thing is water they can do alot of cooling down with waterdun":3fnxj26n said:
