Heat detection

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Stepper

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How can you tell when a cow is in heat ? When ever you see one tring to ride another one doesnt that mean one is in ? I know this is a stupid question and i am going to get riped for asking it. 8) So have at it. ;-)
 
The best indication is that the cow will stand still when mounted. Some will stand to the point their hair will get rubbed off. Other indications are butting heads, but not really fighting, the vulva may swell a bit, and there will usually be a clear mucous discharge when the animal is in heat. A couple days afterwards, you may notice a bloody discharge as well.
 
Thanks randiliana for the information. I have been wondering if you are still comparing weight measurements on the hoof tape verses scales ?
 
Stepper":epo53btx said:
How can you tell when a cow is in heat ? When ever you see one tring to ride another one doesnt that mean one is in ? I know this is a stupid question and i am going to get riped for asking it. 8) So have at it. ;-)

It's not a stupid question. Heat detecting takes some practice and quite a bit of time. When a cow is coming into heat, she'll try to mount other cows, rest her chin on them, generally be restless. When she's in heat, she'll stand and allow them to mount her. When you see a cow standing for others to ride her in the morning, the rule of thumb is to breed her in the evening. But if she's standing in the evening, she should be bred very first thing in the morning.
 
Stepper":v9lmwxn4 said:
Thanks randiliana for the information. I have been wondering if you are still comparing weight measurements on the hoof tape verses scales ?

You are welcome and, yes I am. I am putting them all into a spreadsheet so I can look at them all and compare when I am done.
 
randiliana,

If you dont mind i sure hope you will let us all know the results when you are finished. I got a tape and i am measureing the last 4 calfs that i have left to calf out. I measured two of them both bull calfs and according to the tape they weighed 77 lbs.

They were out of first time heifers but both were easy births. 77lbs is a little big for heifers from what everyone tells me. But other these last two that i am waiting on i have been lucky so far and have not lost any. But i only had 9 to begin with.
 
Stepper":36kdhpa0 said:
So how long to they stay in heat when they come in ?

They'll stand for 4-8 hours, but the restlessness will usually lasts 12-24 hours. Of course, they're individuals and don't all act the same. That's why you need to spend time observing them. There are systems to breed "by appointment" if you don't have time to heat check. And K-MAR patches can be put on the cow so when she stands they break and the paint is smeared on her. One of our local vets has the Heat Watch system. He'll board a cow and use that system until he gets her bred for you....for a price, of course.
 
Stepper":1rz80rwy said:
randiliana,

They were out of first time heifers but both were easy births. 77lbs is a little big for heifers from what everyone tells me. But other these last two that i am waiting on i have been lucky so far and have not lost any. But i only had 9 to begin with.

As long as your heifers are calving without problems don't worry about it. IMO 80# is just about perfect for a heifer. Don't like to see smaller than 70, and don't want them over 90. So far on 9 heifers we are averaging 78#. With a range from 54-97 lbs. Had 2 at 97, and neither was too hard of a pull. But, I'd rather not have them quite that big. Depends a lot on your climate what your BW's are.
 
Frankie,

I wonder if a person could use thoes K-Mar patches to tell when the bull bred them ? That could be a kind of iffy deal though because it could have been another cow that broke the patch right ?
 
Stepper":r2nbxnnf said:
Frankie,

I wonder if a person could use thoes K-Mar patches to tell when the bull bred them ? That could be a kind of iffy deal though because it could have been another cow that broke the patch right ?

Yes, a cow mounting would break them, too. One group used to pull the bulls after a 60-day breeding season, then turn them back out 30 days later with a chinball marker on. When a bull bred a cow, he left a strip of paint on her. They'd know then the cow would be a late calver and sell her as bred. That way they didn't have a year's worth of upkeep in her only to find she didn't calve in the calving season they wanted.

If you're not familiar with chinball markers, it's a halter with a small section for paint under the bull's chin.
 
randiliana,

I have had alot of people tell me that they like to see 40 to 60 lb calfs for a first time heifer. I can kind of see maybe a 60 lb calf. But a 40 lb calf ? :roll: That seems a awful small even a 60 lb calf would seem small to me. But i dont know much about it yet.

I have pulled two out of the 7 i have on the ground so far. But i think i could have got by with out pulling one of thoes 2 and they were both easy pulls. One of thoes 2 seemed to be a little on the big side. But all and all i am happy with the size of the calfs. And they all with the exception of 1 was about the size of the 2 that i have weighed so far. And these calfs are very energetic/healthy when they are first born. They jump right up and start nurseing. I most of the time have to sit on them to hold them while banding/ear tagging them.
 
Frankie,

No i have never herd of the chin ball marker but i am very interested in it. I seen an article one time where sheep farmers had some type of device they would put on a ram and after he mounted the sheep it would leave a blue patch on it.

But i did not know they made anything for a bull. My only concerns with putting some type of halter on a bull would be him getting it hung up on something and breaking his neck. That sometimes happens to horses. Alot of horse owners will not let their horses run loose in the pasture with a halter. A horse will even get its hind leg hung in a halter trying to scratch.

And another thing about putting a halter on a bull that i would worry about is it growing into the bull unless a person had the bull near facilities where the halter could be removed soon after his work was done.
 
Stepper":b9uxabwx said:
Frankie,

No i have never herd of the chin ball marker but i am very interested in it. I seen an article one time where sheep farmers had some type of device they would put on a ram and after he mounted the sheep it would leave a blue patch on it.

But i did not know they made anything for a bull. My only concerns with putting some type of halter on a bull would be him getting it hung up on something and breaking his neck. That sometimes happens to horses. Alot of horse owners will not let their horses run loose in the pasture with a halter. A horse will even get its hind leg hung in a halter trying to scratch.

And another thing about putting a halter on a bull that i would worry about is it growing into the bull unless a person had the bull near facilities where the halter could be removed soon after his work was done.

You're going to have to get the bull in and refill the paint vat. It doesn't hold a lot, or at least the one we're using doesn't. I think Valley Vet and NASCO both carry chinball markers. They have online catalogs if you want to look for one. We prefer the leather ones.

We've been using one for probably 12+ years on at least three different bulls. They've lost them occasionally, but never got hung up with one. And we found the lost ones.
 
Frankie,

How many cows will it mark before it has to be refilled ? I am going to look on nasco and see if they have them. I guess that they have worked pretty good for you to have used them going on 12 years now ? Does it mark them good ?
 
Stepper":2svukszp said:
Frankie,

How many cows will it mark before it has to be refilled ? I am going to look on nasco and see if they have them. I guess that they have worked pretty good for you to have used them going on 12 years now ? Does it mark them good ?

I have one on a Jersey gomer bull. It stayes on untill everything is bred. I would not worry about it growing into their head, as you will have to remove it to refill. I have never even seen a sore spot caused from it. We did have a bull that figured out he could pull them off. Never did figure out how he did that.
It will tell you in the advert. that they are good for a certain number of cows, there are a couple of diferent sizes. We refill or check for refill every week. I have found that they will rub it and cause the paint to be used up even without any cows.
As far as marking them well. You will want to give that cow a bath after you see them marked. Don,t worry about it they rub it off after a couple of weeks or a good rain. I had a neighbor call to tell me that someone had been shooting my cows with a paintball gun.
 
Stepper":1osgnejz said:
Frankie,

How many cows will it mark before it has to be refilled ? I am going to look on nasco and see if they have them. I guess that they have worked pretty good for you to have used them going on 12 years now ? Does it mark them good ?

The paint will last different lengths of time. If most everything is bred, it lasts longer. The vat in the halter has a ball in it that rolls the paint out as the bull slides his head across a cow. If he gets in the pasture and starts digging and putting his head in the dirt, he may empty the paint pretty quick. Pushing and shoving around the hay ring will use some. If nothing is in heat and he doesn't get stupid, it will last longer. Different bulls have reacted to them differently. The bull we have now will be replaced next year. He's not working as hard as he should be, so the paint lasts longer. That's not a good thing. Paint comes in different colors, too. We use yellow because we have Angus cows. They've been helpful to us, but you do need something that will mount the cow to put the halter on. We use a dehorned longhorn bull that's had a vasctomey. Our first gomer bull was a Jersey, but he got mean pretty quick. We went with longhorns because they don't get as big as some of the beef breeds and we've had pretty good luck with dispsition on them.
 
when your using a chin ball marker on a gomerized bull or cow.they could an can get a little mean.esp since you have to check the maker an refill as needed.honestly i dont know if id put a chin ball marker on a breeding bull.because itll make him a tad mean.due to being handled alot.
 
What is a gomerized bull ? I have never herd of one. And if i am understanding things right, the more that you catch a bull and put him in a head gate. It will tend to make him mean ? I mean even if you only have to catch him a couple of times a year to worm & vaccinate him ?
 
Stepper":3833mdn2 said:
What is a gomerized bull ? I have never herd of one. And if i am understanding things right, the more that you catch a bull and put him in a head gate. It will tend to make him mean ? I mean even if you only have to catch him a couple of times a year to worm & vaccinate him ?
a gomerozed bull has been fixed so he cant breed the cows/heifers that your AIing.
 

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