Stocker Steve
Well-known member
Small green squares hit U$S 9 at a recent hay auction, and then two horse women got in a fight... :deadhorse:
This could be a good time to buy in Aaron!
This could be a good time to buy in Aaron!
hay supply and prices
- Thread starter Bcompton53
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snoopdog
Well-known member
I guess this thread kinda makes me feel good, and I really need that today. We've sold out more than once, sold hay and made money, bought stockers and lost money. Planted and Fertilized and then no rain and took it on the chin, all the while working a full time job. I've never had a new pickup or a new piece of equipment. Spent all day clearing more ground, and my 54 year old body is sore, gonna take a bath in linomint tonight. Tomorrow, I'm gonna vaccinate, probably by myself. "damn the torpedos, full ahead". You just gotta make your mind up, use good common sense, but the only thing that can hold you back is you.
Bcompton53
Well-known member
snoopdog said:
Yet we always come back for more. We calve in October/November, and we had no issues this year, and listening to my friends calving over the past few weeks in Kansas, some lost serious numbers of calves in the negative temps.
It's been a bad year to be in the cattle business especially if you are just getting started.
Hay and calf prices are going to vary year to year until the end of time so better get used to it. Every year I hear people talk about selling out because feed prices go up or calf prices go down and just wonder where the planning is. I guess the goal is for the cattle account to hit zero before the calves are sold every year?? Business requires long term planning and cattle are a business.
I know it was mentioned earlier but I don't feel like the hay guys are gouging as bad as people think. My neighbor bales his own hay and does enough side hay to make equipment payments, this year was so bad he was making less than half of what he usually does. Same fuel and time but he made half the money. He felt bad about charging more so ended up working for free or at a loss.
You say you calve in the fall? Might look at spring calving. It takes about half the inputs to carry a dry cow through the winter as a wet cow. Might be an area thing on that though, just a thought.
Only other thing I'll add is you kept talking about having old equipment. Cows could care less what kind of equipment you have. New or old it doesn't matter. New equipment comes with being successful and making money at whatever it is you do and then spending it on things you want.
Hay and calf prices are going to vary year to year until the end of time so better get used to it. Every year I hear people talk about selling out because feed prices go up or calf prices go down and just wonder where the planning is. I guess the goal is for the cattle account to hit zero before the calves are sold every year?? Business requires long term planning and cattle are a business.
I know it was mentioned earlier but I don't feel like the hay guys are gouging as bad as people think. My neighbor bales his own hay and does enough side hay to make equipment payments, this year was so bad he was making less than half of what he usually does. Same fuel and time but he made half the money. He felt bad about charging more so ended up working for free or at a loss.
You say you calve in the fall? Might look at spring calving. It takes about half the inputs to carry a dry cow through the winter as a wet cow. Might be an area thing on that though, just a thought.
Only other thing I'll add is you kept talking about having old equipment. Cows could care less what kind of equipment you have. New or old it doesn't matter. New equipment comes with being successful and making money at whatever it is you do and then spending it on things you want.
Bcompton53
Well-known member
Lucky said:
I'm confused at the intent of the last part. I'm not complaining about having old equipment. What I was saying is, i work hard to keep my costs low (within my means). In other words, if I had 20 head of cattle, drove a brand new John Deere, and a brand new Chevy, then complained about the costs of hay hitting my bottom line, wouldn't you be suspect of my logic? I would.
I've researched lots on spring vs fall calves. What I like about fall calving is, cattle are so much easier to work for syncing and AI when it's not 100 degrees out, and working them efficiently is something we're borderline on at the ranch, so I need all the help I can get.
I agree that the inputs are less for spring calves as far as the overwintering of the cow. Although we don't have the ability to limit feed hay, and I supplement with corn and bagged protein, and these costs are minuscule compared to my hay costs this year. And if I understand right, the cows may need less corn/protein, but will pretty much eat the same amount of hay until they are full. So while it would be cheaper, i don't think it would be as good as it sounds.
Typically cull cow prices are better in the spring (so I hear). Which is when we preg check and cull.
I would rather calf in good weather, and breed in the cold, than calve in cold and breed in nicer weather. I can survive 10°, and new born calf may not. I haven't lost a calf to environmental issues since we started 3 years ago.
My conclusion is there is no perfect calving season, it's whatever fits the producer. Scheduling calving around crop operations isn't an issue for us, but is for some.
Maybe I was off on the equipment, it's just that equipment cost are always brought up.
I'm really surprised there isn't more talk about fall vs. spring calving on this board. Could be most just run bulls year round now days. It's definitely an interesting topic that could go on forever. Good luck I know it's frustrating feeling like you've been had but it's just part of it. I paid an extra $40 a ton yhis year and was just happy I found enough hay.
I'm really surprised there isn't more talk about fall vs. spring calving on this board. Could be most just run bulls year round now days. It's definitely an interesting topic that could go on forever. Good luck I know it's frustrating feeling like you've been had but it's just part of it. I paid an extra $40 a ton yhis year and was just happy I found enough hay.
callmefence
Keyboard cowboy
Bcompton53 said:
Wow... should be in Webster as the definition of millenial crybaby....
Bcompton53
Well-known member
callmefence said:
Yeah, and I'll still be here long after you're gone.
callmefence
Keyboard cowboy
Bcompton53 said:
Probably..but you won't catch me whining about lack of encouragement
LMAO....... you go get em scout.. I'm gonna buy you a trophy just for trying.
Everyone gets to be a winner.
Bcompton53
Well-known member
callmefence said:
Thank you!
farmerjan
Well-known member
I have reread this thread twice, and decided to add this. I posted a long answer back in the beginning of this thread.
You are not the only one scrambling to find hay, or to afford it. It is happening in alot of places, to many people who have had reliable sources in the past. Hay here is even getting scarce. Had a neighbor who just came and got 10 rolls because he is running out. We had about 2 years worth of hay with what we had left over. Some was hay we were just rolling out for bedding because it was 3 years old that had never been fed. Some definite loss of hay around the outsides and the bottom of the rolls. But they were eating the centers and utilizing the "rotten stuff" for some drier places to lay on. We will be lucky to have 50 rolls left over and we try to carry 150 or more as insurance to a bad year.
It is not just your "God awful planning", but it might behoove you to not be so negative towards everything. Some of us have had long rows to hoe and are still trying. It does not pencil out to be in the cattle business in some areas. Maybe you need to make hay and sell it rather than try to increase your cattle if land is worth that much there. And as I stated previously, we have alot of OLD equipment. I said 20 years until my son corrected me as I forget how time goes by. Most of ours, except our discbine, is 30 to 50 years old. I think of stuff in terms of 1990 as 10 years ago when it is nearly 30 years ago.
You may not be here long after some of us are gone.... you might be out before we are gone because you have a negative attitude about it. Many of us will be gone because we got old enough that we died, but having the anger attitude that you have will put you out. Most every farmer that I know, has learned that you have to roll with the punches, and try to do better the next year. Getting your back up because you think a few people are "screwing you" only winds up making you more unhappy and adds to your reputation as a "jerk". I am speaking from a generalization perspective, not specific, as I don't know you. But we have found that "newer" people in the cattle business either learn to get along, and not be so negative to their neighbors or they wind up getting out thinking that they were "discriminated against". In tough times, you will find people who will help you if you aren't always thinking you are getting the short end of the stick. But you have to be willing to work with them too.
If you buy hay by the ton, then it needs to be weighed, every load. If you buy by the bale, then you need to accept that bales will vary from bale to bale, field to field, condition of the grass.... It also dries out as it sits and will lose weight . And it will pick up weight that is just water in a wet year if it is sitting out. And it will lose quality and get rot and mold and such.
I think that you are making too many generalizations about hay farmers, and not taking any responsibility for your own lack of knowledge or experience. Supply and demand does play into it. But again, you have to plan and if it looks like it is a dry year, say farmers are getting half or 2/3 of their normal yield, then you have to be ready to pay ahead, buy all you can and perhaps get more trucked in from somewhere to make sure you are covered. We make alot of hay, yet buy most of what is offered to us also., even when we really don't need it. Gives us a good cushion, for years like this.
There is someone that will screw you in every type of business there is. Experience will tell you who to deal with, who to watch, who to avoid.... whether it is cattle, hay, equipment, used cars or whatever.
You are not the only one scrambling to find hay, or to afford it. It is happening in alot of places, to many people who have had reliable sources in the past. Hay here is even getting scarce. Had a neighbor who just came and got 10 rolls because he is running out. We had about 2 years worth of hay with what we had left over. Some was hay we were just rolling out for bedding because it was 3 years old that had never been fed. Some definite loss of hay around the outsides and the bottom of the rolls. But they were eating the centers and utilizing the "rotten stuff" for some drier places to lay on. We will be lucky to have 50 rolls left over and we try to carry 150 or more as insurance to a bad year.
It is not just your "God awful planning", but it might behoove you to not be so negative towards everything. Some of us have had long rows to hoe and are still trying. It does not pencil out to be in the cattle business in some areas. Maybe you need to make hay and sell it rather than try to increase your cattle if land is worth that much there. And as I stated previously, we have alot of OLD equipment. I said 20 years until my son corrected me as I forget how time goes by. Most of ours, except our discbine, is 30 to 50 years old. I think of stuff in terms of 1990 as 10 years ago when it is nearly 30 years ago.
You may not be here long after some of us are gone.... you might be out before we are gone because you have a negative attitude about it. Many of us will be gone because we got old enough that we died, but having the anger attitude that you have will put you out. Most every farmer that I know, has learned that you have to roll with the punches, and try to do better the next year. Getting your back up because you think a few people are "screwing you" only winds up making you more unhappy and adds to your reputation as a "jerk". I am speaking from a generalization perspective, not specific, as I don't know you. But we have found that "newer" people in the cattle business either learn to get along, and not be so negative to their neighbors or they wind up getting out thinking that they were "discriminated against". In tough times, you will find people who will help you if you aren't always thinking you are getting the short end of the stick. But you have to be willing to work with them too.
If you buy hay by the ton, then it needs to be weighed, every load. If you buy by the bale, then you need to accept that bales will vary from bale to bale, field to field, condition of the grass.... It also dries out as it sits and will lose weight . And it will pick up weight that is just water in a wet year if it is sitting out. And it will lose quality and get rot and mold and such.
I think that you are making too many generalizations about hay farmers, and not taking any responsibility for your own lack of knowledge or experience. Supply and demand does play into it. But again, you have to plan and if it looks like it is a dry year, say farmers are getting half or 2/3 of their normal yield, then you have to be ready to pay ahead, buy all you can and perhaps get more trucked in from somewhere to make sure you are covered. We make alot of hay, yet buy most of what is offered to us also., even when we really don't need it. Gives us a good cushion, for years like this.
There is someone that will screw you in every type of business there is. Experience will tell you who to deal with, who to watch, who to avoid.... whether it is cattle, hay, equipment, used cars or whatever.
True Grit Farms
Well-known member
Beggers can't be choosers. I've been buying $60 hay and $30 hay from the man. Most years it's barn stored $60 a roll for a 6x4 roll of hay that you don't need to supplement. It's well worth the money.
Fenceman do you get koolaid with the trophy?
Fenceman do you get koolaid with the trophy?
Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
Three or four good years in a row and hay gets dirt cheap every one has plenty. One bad year and they yell like you tried to cut there throat.
snoopdog
Well-known member
I am surprised also, we are running our bull year round to get our fall calvers turned around, gonna take a little while, but with limited acreage its the only way we can come out. That will also let us graze the hayfields with the calves in the winter. We turned our weaners out on the first cutting, instead of baling last year and got some impressive gains, but now we're buying hay, I haven't got the numbers actually crunched, but I think we came out. I don't want to go through it again, And we didn't get the vaxxing done today, rainy and cold and I just wasn't up to it. May sell em green.Lucky said:
