hay supply and prices

[Bcompton53]

Boy, I wish I had 20 year old equipment. That'd be a heck of an upgrade.
Let me tell you a little story about the last two loads of hay I got. The first, the guy said his bales were always 1330#. When we negotiated price per ton, I figured, what the heck, I'll go over the scales, bales averaged 1215. So that's the first time a hay producer tried to screw me this year, the next load I got from another supplier, I didn't have access to scales, so unfortunately bought on a per bale basis. His bales had 1.5 wraps of netting. Every single bale comes apart before I even get it to the pen. It's a giant mess. So yeah, I'm sure hay producers are all honest, and my weaned calves are 900 pounds, trust me.

 

[farmerjan]

In 1997 I sold my equipment and bought my hay ever since. At least 4 out of 5 years I bought hay cheaper than I can make it. But I never bought hay in February. Buying hay this late in the year is almost guaranteed to cost too much. I always bought the hay in the summer and bought more than I figured I would use. I would feed the left over hay first the next year. Droughts are rare in Western Washington but we had one which forced me to start feeding hay 2 1/2 months early. By November I was counting bales and could see well in advance that I would run short. I got in a semi load of hay the first of December. Come February people were begging for hay and there simply wasn't any available at any price. How does the saying go, bad planning on your part does not constitute a panic on my part.

Yeah, I'm to blame. Excuse the 30 year old trying to build a herd, who doesn't have any family in the business, who lives 3 hours from his herd. Farm changed from dairy to beef 3 years ago, and been building the herd since then. My only two "normal" sources for hay had none. Zero, zilch. So I'm piecing together the orders I can find. I've bought two people out so far. But yeah, It's my God awful planning. Thanks for the encouragement.

You are not the only one who has come up the hard way trying to build his herd. I started milking on a dairy, raised some bottle calves. BOUGHT EVERYTHING RETAIL. Worked, and STILL DO, an off the farm job. Moved to Va in 1981. Raised what calves I could afford. Bought my hay and grain. Financed a few cows. My son came in with me when he turned 18 and moved here from his fathers" in Ct. Worked, and still DOES, a full time job off the farm. Borrowed money, and bought cows. Rent and lease property. Financed equipment. Made a little money in the good years, paid off some debt or bought more cows. Lived off the "full-time" job.
We have scrambled to find hay in the past. Paid outrageous money sometimes. Got caught short and had to pay more than it would ever pencil out. Lost one farm to bankruptcy when prices were just too low and inputs were too high. You are not doing anything that many of us have also done. We are tightening our belts right now because we will be in the red this year. Too much rain, poor hay, too much "washy grass" last year, poorer nutrition, and very disappointing pregnancy rates. We are commercial, not purebred. But we will suffer through it as do most farmers. We have our health for the most part, we are doing what we like in our "off hours" and maybe by the grace of God, we will survive.

I work in the dairy industry.... You want to see INEQUITY, look at the milk prices compared to the costs... and farmers, GOOD FARMERS, that are saying enough is enough.
So this year, you will pay "too much" for the hay. Next year you will do better at getting hay sooner, being as ready as you can. If you think that the hay is too high priced, then have less cows, stockpile more grass, rotational graze, or put out the money to buy equipment and make your own. Living 3 hours away is not great. But trying to deal with Mother Nature, like last year, will make a 3 hour trip seem like a walk in the park.

Hay here regularly goes for $150 to 250 a ton. So what you are paying is not the end of the world compared to what we see. And we take a hit on our feeders because they have to get trucked to anywhere that they are going to get fed or grazed.

 

[Bcompton53]

In 1997 I sold my equipment and bought my hay ever since. At least 4 out of 5 years I bought hay cheaper than I can make it. But I never bought hay in February. Buying hay this late in the year is almost guaranteed to cost too much. I always bought the hay in the summer and bought more than I figured I would use. I would feed the left over hay first the next year. Droughts are rare in Western Washington but we had one which forced me to start feeding hay 2 1/2 months early. By November I was counting bales and could see well in advance that I would run short. I got in a semi load of hay the first of December. Come February people were begging for hay and there simply wasn't any available at any price. How does the saying go, bad planning on your part does not constitute a panic on my part.

Yeah, I'm to blame. Excuse the 30 year old trying to build a herd, who doesn't have any family in the business, who lives 3 hours from his herd. Farm changed from dairy to beef 3 years ago, and been building the herd since then. My only two "normal" sources for hay had none. Zero, zilch. So I'm piecing together the orders I can find. I've bought two people out so far. But yeah, It's my God awful planning. Thanks for the encouragement.

You are not the only one who has come up the hard way trying to build his herd. I started milking on a dairy, raised some bottle calves. BOUGHT EVERYTHING RETAIL. Worked, and STILL DO, an off the farm job. Moved to Va in 1981. Raised what calves I could afford. Bought my hay and grain. Financed a few cows. My son came in with me when he turned 18 and moved here from his fathers" in Ct. Worked, and still DOES, a full time job off the farm. Borrowed money, and bought cows. Rent and lease property. Financed equipment. Made a little money in the good years, paid off some debt or bought more cows. Lived off the "full-time" job.
We have scrambled to find hay in the past. Paid outrageous money sometimes. Got caught short and had to pay more than it would ever pencil out. Lost one farm to bankruptcy when prices were just too low and inputs were too high. You are not doing anything that many of us have also done. We are tightening our belts right now because we will be in the red this year. Too much rain, poor hay, too much "washy grass" last year, poorer nutrition, and very disappointing pregnancy rates. We are commercial, not purebred. But we will suffer through it as do most farmers. We have our health for the most part, we are doing what we like in our "off hours" and maybe by the grace of God, we will survive.

I work in the dairy industry.... You want to see INEQUITY, look at the milk prices compared to the costs... and farmers, GOOD FARMERS, that are saying enough is enough.
So this year, you will pay "too much" for the hay. Next year you will do better at getting hay sooner, being as ready as you can. If you think that the hay is too high priced, then have less cows, stockpile more grass, rotational graze, or put out the money to buy equipment and make your own. Living 3 hours away is not great. But trying to deal with Mother Nature, like last year, will make a 3 hour trip seem like a walk in the park.

Hay here regularly goes for $150 to 250 a ton. So what you are paying is not the end of the world compared to what we see. And we take a hit on our feeders because they have to get trucked to anywhere that they are going to get fed or grazed.

I hear ya. My dad owned and ran a dairy for years. Talk about working hard for no money. He sold out 4 years ago. As far as making our own hay, land in Ne Kansas is just stupid right now. 5-6, even $8000/acre for farm ground. I'd have to just toss in the towel before buying equipment and having to find and buy hay ground. It just doesn't make financial sense. Trust me, I'd sure like to make those moves, I grew up doing that stuff and would like to get back to it, but ranching for free is one thing, ranching in exchange for every penny I make at my full time job, I'm just not inclined to do that.

 

[farmerjan]

I have to make a correction. Seems in my "old age" I lose track of time. My Farmall H is over 60 years old. Bought used. The JD is a 1990? I think my son said, nearly 30 years . Got it from an estate of a friend that died, will make payments for the next 18 years. The side delivery rake is cast and has a "spring" for a jack that you back it up , more like about 40-50 years old. The wheel rake was part of the estate, also financed. Close to 20 yrs old. The 2 ford tractors, no cabs, are 4600 and 6600. So however old they are. They were in rough shape, well used (abused) , part of the estate. The round balers are over 20 years old. All bought used. I asked my son. He said mom, they aren't 10 years old, most of all the stuff, is over 20-30 years old. The only thing "new" is the discbine. We had a used one. It cost more to replace the turtle shells where the blades are then we could justify against the price of a new one. We put about 300 acres of hay a year, through it between all the cuttings.
None of my family is in farming. They think I am nuts. My grandmother and great grandmother had 10 milk cows and shipped milk in cans to NYC from Ct before my father was in school. They got out. No one has helped us. We hear how we are wasting our time and killing ourselves for nothing.

We sell our rolls by the roll, seldom by the ton. They run around 900 to 1100 lbs. We do use more net wrap than 1 1/2 turns but we hate the net wrap. Bales are smaller. We make 5x5 and 5x6 with the other baler, so we can make fewer bales and bigger bales and less trips to feed with more hay.
I never said every hay farmer is honest. But most are not scum either.
I have been at this for over 35 years. I am 65 and he is 45. Consider yourself fortunate that you are 30 and have many good years ahead of you to do it.

 

[farmerjan]

Your dad got out at the right time. It has gotten A LOT worse since then. Springing heifers now can be bought here for $800. It is sad. And milk prices are less than what we were getting in 1980....when I was milking full time.
Land here is from $3 to 10,000 an acre. We are in Rockbridge County.... get the hint ?? 3 1/2 hours from Washington, DC and all the big "cities".... but this is till cheaper than where I came from in Ct. This year it will take all we have to try to stay afloat . One way to do that is to sell more square bales and run less cows since feeders will barely pay for the cost to keep a cow. Small mini-farms with sheep and goats are springing up and that is where those with retirement incomes from jobs they made money at, are at now. They have some disposable income, and enjoy their "hobby farms". And the "horse people", as long as you can find the ones that pay.

 

[sstterry]

Dairy people have been abused for years by big business and even their own associations. They were lied to and cheated and stolen from. Now, the price of milk is less than bottled water. Milking cows is much more labor intensive than raising beef.

BTW, Rockbridge County is a beautiful area. My son almost went to W & L and I spent several weekends in Lexington driving around the county waiting on him.

 

[1982vett]

From a little different perspective. We make hay and sell some. Run a cow/calf operation. We are tired of everyone that moans and groans about the cost of the hay when we charge $40 or more a roll for mixed grass hay and $50 or more for decent first cutting orchard grass. We start our small square bales at $5.00 now. We have customers that we have had for over 20 years. We know about how much they use, we make sure we have enough for them. We don't gouge them. But we HAVE to make a little "profit" so that we can make a little for our time. We have to hire some help to put up the sq bales. That's not cheap.
Most of the time there is a minimum of $30-35 in a roll. Fertilizer doesn't get any cheaper. Fuel and all too. Land rents keep going up. Bought any equipment lately? The years we get a real good crop, so does everyone else. Then it is cheap. We lose money or feed it to our animals.
Rydero and littletom are right. Rolls have been bringing $30-35 a roll for the last 20 years. It costs more to get it made. We are tired of barely paying for the costs, and our labor is free. When there is a shortage, people come out of the woodwork and then cry about how expensive it is. When there is plenty, you don't see those people cuz they found it for $5 bale less than what you are getting.
We do alot of delivery of the small squares to a couple of these regular customers. We have weeded out the deadbeats. These guys are there to help if they aren't working, and they have a check or cash waiting. For the ones that we have been delivering to regularly, they will call a couple of weeks ahead, say we have xx number of bales left. We will make a delivery, and if they aren't home, they will be on the phone the next day, "how many did you bring and what do I owe you?" There are no complaints, because they know they will get taken care of.

The ones that start calling around, and say wow, that's alot, I got some from so and so, for xx dollars... can you meet that? NOPE go back and get more from them. We have a lady that was referred to us. She came, looked at the hay, PREPAID for 10 rolls up front with the stipulation that she gets one a week. $45 roll. She calls a day or two ahead, asks when we are going to be at the barn. Makes it suit OUR schedule. Loads one in the truck. She just asked if we would have 20 more... we promised her 10 more at this time. We are getting down because last year was a tough year to get it made. Our cows are eating hay like there is no tomorrow this winter. All the cold and wet weather is hard on them.
NOT going to keep giving it away. We only want a fair price. We cover alot of ground and this discbine is already 3 years old. The round balers are more than 10, maybe 15 years old. The square baler is over 20 years old. Just had it worked over. Diesel is 2.60/gal for off road now. We cut, tedd, rake, and bale. If it dries good, sometimes don't have to tedd. At least 3,usually 4 trips over the field. The rakes are all used, a large wheel rake, and small side delivery rake for the cut up fields. I still use the Farmall H to rake the small fields with. Sometimes more trips across, if the weather isn't the best. Last year everything was wet, way over mature, and we struggled to make it decent. Many fields got tedded twice to get it dry.
If you are getting decent hay, be glad. It isn't our fault that it costs to get it made. There isn't alot of good hay around. Many "hay farmers" are trying to get it sold right out of the field so that there is less handling. Round or sq bales, handling makes them more expensive.
We no longer take "cold calls" for hay. You have to be referred by someone because we trust those that do the referring to not send someone to us that is going to hem and haw over it. Or give us a bad check, or get all loaded and say they only have xx dollars with them.
These are some of the reasons that people quit making hay to sell. On top of that, it is hard hot work. We have 1 tractor with air conditioning. 20 years old. You HAVE to use it to cut with the discbine for the protection of the cab. You have to round bale with it or you get so choked up from the dust that you get sick. And a non-airconditioned cab will cook you in the hot summertime. I use open cab and no cab tractors to tedd and rake with. Have an umbrella for a little shade protection.

Add to that, the calf prices are lower here. We can barely get 1.50 lb for feeder steers @ 500 lbs. 1.15 for heifers. If I am going to give away my hay for less than I can make it, I am going to put it in my calves. At least some of the fertilizer that I used on the field, will come back out of the calves and go back on my field.
I get that it is "expensive" to you because the calf prices are low. But it is not expensive when you take a look at the inputs.
Any business that I have ever seen, takes the costs of what it takes to make their product, then adds a percentage to be able to make a profit. Farmers are the only ones who don't . There is something wrong with this picture.

Preaching to the choir Sista.... :nod:

 

[Caustic Burno]

From a little different perspective. We make hay and sell some. Run a cow/calf operation. We are tired of everyone that moans and groans about the cost of the hay when we charge $40 or more a roll for mixed grass hay and $50 or more for decent first cutting orchard grass. We start our small square bales at $5.00 now. We have customers that we have had for over 20 years. We know about how much they use, we make sure we have enough for them. We don't gouge them. But we HAVE to make a little "profit" so that we can make a little for our time. We have to hire some help to put up the sq bales. That's not cheap.
Most of the time there is a minimum of $30-35 in a roll. Fertilizer doesn't get any cheaper. Fuel and all too. Land rents keep going up. Bought any equipment lately? The years we get a real good crop, so does everyone else. Then it is cheap. We lose money or feed it to our animals.
Rydero and littletom are right. Rolls have been bringing $30-35 a roll for the last 20 years. It costs more to get it made. We are tired of barely paying for the costs, and our labor is free. When there is a shortage, people come out of the woodwork and then cry about how expensive it is. When there is plenty, you don't see those people cuz they found it for $5 bale less than what you are getting.
We do alot of delivery of the small squares to a couple of these regular customers. We have weeded out the deadbeats. These guys are there to help if they aren't working, and they have a check or cash waiting. For the ones that we have been delivering to regularly, they will call a couple of weeks ahead, say we have xx number of bales left. We will make a delivery, and if they aren't home, they will be on the phone the next day, "how many did you bring and what do I owe you?" There are no complaints, because they know they will get taken care of.

The ones that start calling around, and say wow, that's alot, I got some from so and so, for xx dollars... can you meet that? NOPE go back and get more from them. We have a lady that was referred to us. She came, looked at the hay, PREPAID for 10 rolls up front with the stipulation that she gets one a week. $45 roll. She calls a day or two ahead, asks when we are going to be at the barn. Makes it suit OUR schedule. Loads one in the truck. She just asked if we would have 20 more... we promised her 10 more at this time. We are getting down because last year was a tough year to get it made. Our cows are eating hay like there is no tomorrow this winter. All the cold and wet weather is hard on them.
NOT going to keep giving it away. We only want a fair price. We cover alot of ground and this discbine is already 3 years old. The round balers are more than 10, maybe 15 years old. The square baler is over 20 years old. Just had it worked over. Diesel is 2.60/gal for off road now. We cut, tedd, rake, and bale. If it dries good, sometimes don't have to tedd. At least 3,usually 4 trips over the field. The rakes are all used, a large wheel rake, and small side delivery rake for the cut up fields. I still use the Farmall H to rake the small fields with. Sometimes more trips across, if the weather isn't the best. Last year everything was wet, way over mature, and we struggled to make it decent. Many fields got tedded twice to get it dry.
If you are getting decent hay, be glad. It isn't our fault that it costs to get it made. There isn't alot of good hay around. Many "hay farmers" are trying to get it sold right out of the field so that there is less handling. Round or sq bales, handling makes them more expensive.
We no longer take "cold calls" for hay. You have to be referred by someone because we trust those that do the referring to not send someone to us that is going to hem and haw over it. Or give us a bad check, or get all loaded and say they only have xx dollars with them.
These are some of the reasons that people quit making hay to sell. On top of that, it is hard hot work. We have 1 tractor with air conditioning. 20 years old. You HAVE to use it to cut with the discbine for the protection of the cab. You have to round bale with it or you get so choked up from the dust that you get sick. And a non-airconditioned cab will cook you in the hot summertime. I use open cab and no cab tractors to tedd and rake with. Have an umbrella for a little shade protection.

Add to that, the calf prices are lower here. We can barely get 1.50 lb for feeder steers @ 500 lbs. 1.15 for heifers. If I am going to give away my hay for less than I can make it, I am going to put it in my calves. At least some of the fertilizer that I used on the field, will come back out of the calves and go back on my field.
I get that it is "expensive" to you because the calf prices are low. But it is not expensive when you take a look at the inputs.
Any business that I have ever seen, takes the costs of what it takes to make their product, then adds a percentage to be able to make a profit. Farmers are the only ones who don't . There is something wrong with this picture.

Preaching to the choir Sista.... :nod:

+1

 

[Dave]

In 1997 I sold my equipment and bought my hay ever since. At least 4 out of 5 years I bought hay cheaper than I can make it. But I never bought hay in February. Buying hay this late in the year is almost guaranteed to cost too much. I always bought the hay in the summer and bought more than I figured I would use. I would feed the left over hay first the next year. Droughts are rare in Western Washington but we had one which forced me to start feeding hay 2 1/2 months early. By November I was counting bales and could see well in advance that I would run short. I got in a semi load of hay the first of December. Come February people were begging for hay and there simply was't any available at any price. How does the saying go, bad planning on your part does not constitute a panic on my part.

Yeah, I'm to blame. Excuse the 30 year old trying to build a herd, who doesn't have any family in the business, who lives 3 hours from his herd. Farm changed from dairy to beef 3 years ago, and been building the herd since then. My only two "normal" sources for hay had none. Zero, zilch. So I'm piecing together the orders I can find. I've bought two people out so far. But yeah, It's my God aweful planning. Thanks for the encouragement.

My comment was not intended to be aimed at you. I am sorry if you took it that way. Hay is one of those things that you need. It doesn't mater if you make it or buy it. By the end of summer one needs to have more than enough to make it to spring grass in the stack. Being 3 hours away and having a full time job certainly doesn't make things easier. When "normal" sources dry up you have to search further out. I am just saying it is a lot easier (and cheaper) to find it early than it is to find it late.

 

[farmerjan]

Dairy people have been abused for years by big business and even their own associations. They were lied to and cheated and stolen from. Now, the price of milk is less than bottled water. Milking cows is much more labor intensive than raising beef.

BTW, Rockbridge County is a beautiful area. My son almost went to W & L and I spent several weekends in Lexington driving around the county waiting on him.

Yes, Rockbridge County and the whole area of Augusta, Highland, Bath, & Rockbridge counties are nice. I wound up here because it is alot like the Green Mountains of Vermont where my family had property and cousins had a dairy. W & L and Virginia Military are what drive and support Lexington. But there is alot of rock. Best mostly for grazing and some crops. There were 20 + dairies in Rockbridge 30 years ago; there are 4 now and 2 more will probably be out in 5 years. No one to take them over, and milk prices are killing them. The close proximity to I-81 has been bringing the jerks in from elsewhere and we are dealing with more "yankees" that move from where they were, too high taxes, and all that, and now they are wanting this and that and the costs are going up. But that is happening so many places. I came here because I wanted the rural life, and have fought hard to keep it that way. But we can't make a living farming, and the outsiders have money and come in and buy the land and then proceed to make it "fancy" and next thing you know we can't spread "manure" cuz it "smells"..... AAARRRRGGGGHHHH :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

 

[sstterry]

Dairy people have been abused for years by big business and even their own associations. They were lied to and cheated and stolen from. Now, the price of milk is less than bottled water. Milking cows is much more labor intensive than raising beef.

BTW, Rockbridge County is a beautiful area. My son almost went to W & L and I spent several weekends in Lexington driving around the county waiting on him.

Yes, Rockbridge County and the whole area of Augusta, Highland, Bath, & Rockbridge counties are nice. I wound up here because it is alot like the Green Mountains of Vermont where my family had property and cousins had a dairy. W & L and Virginia Military are what drive and support Lexington. But there is alot of rock. Best mostly for grazing and some crops. There were 20 + dairies in Rockbridge 30 years ago; there are 4 now and 2 more will probably be out in 5 years. No one to take them over, and milk prices are killing them. The close proximity to I-81 has been bringing the jerks in from elsewhere and we are dealing with more "yankees" that move from where they were, too high taxes, and all that, and now they are wanting this and that and the costs are going up. But that is happening so many places. I came here because I wanted the rural life, and have fought hard to keep it that way. But we can't make a living farming, and the outsiders have money and come in and buy the land and then proceed to make it "fancy" and next thing you know we can't spread "manure" cuz it "smells"..... AAARRRRGGGGHHHH :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

VA also gets a sizeable income from Speed Traps in that area, don't ask me how I know..... :lol:

 

[farmerjan]

Yep, especially Rockbridge and Augusta county to the north, and Botetourt and Roanoke Counties to the south. And don't even think about going over the speed limit in Lexington...... :hide: :hide: :hide:

 

[DCA farm]

I paid $25 a roll for 4x5 hay picked up from
One place this year and $50 a roll for 4x5 hay delivered to me from another man Both guys ran out quick which was no surprise but they didn't try and make a killing off me either.

 

[Allenw]

Boy, I wish I had 20 year old equipment. That'd be a heck of an upgrade.
Let me tell you a little story about the last two loads of hay I got. The first, the guy said his bales were always 1330#. When we negotiated price per ton, I figured, what the heck, I'll go over the scales, bales averaged 1215. So that's the first time a hay producer tried to screw me this year, the next load I got from another supplier, I didn't have access to scales, so unfortunately bought on a per bale basis. His bales had 1.5 wraps of netting. Every single bale comes apart before I even get it to the pen. It's a giant mess. So yeah, I'm sure hay producers are all honest, and my weaned calves are 900 pounds, trust me.

"The first, the guy said his bales were always 1330#. When we negotiated price per ton, I figured, what the heck, I'll go over the scales, bales averaged 1215. So that's the first time a hay producer tried to screw me this year"

How did you get screwed if you bought it by the ton?

 

[Bcompton53]

Boy, I wish I had 20 year old equipment. That'd be a heck of an upgrade.
Let me tell you a little story about the last two loads of hay I got. The first, the guy said his bales were always 1330#. When we negotiated price per ton, I figured, what the heck, I'll go over the scales, bales averaged 1215. So that's the first time a hay producer tried to screw me this year, the next load I got from another supplier, I didn't have access to scales, so unfortunately bought on a per bale basis. His bales had 1.5 wraps of netting. Every single bale comes apart before I even get it to the pen. It's a giant mess. So yeah, I'm sure hay producers are all honest, and my weaned calves are 900 pounds, trust me.

"The first, the guy said his bales were always 1330#. When we negotiated price per ton, I figured, what the heck, I'll go over the scales, bales averaged 1215. So that's the first time a hay producer tried to screw me this year"

How did you get screwed if you bought it by the ton?

I guess we negotiated the price per ton, then converted to a per bale price based on his 1330 weight.

 

[5S Cattle]

Don't listen to people tell you how much their calves weigh, or their how heavy their bales are.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I hear people tell me what their bales weigh all the time yet they have never put a single one on the scales. I weigh random bales as they come off the field and without changing a single thing on the baler there can be a huge variation in bale weight field to field and day to day.

 

[kenny thomas]

https://cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=115636
Bringing this back

 

[DCA farm]

ain't that the truth

 

[Lazy M]

Raising cattle will never disappoint in teaching hard lessons. Make a plan, choose a goal, and fight for it everyday; and try not to repeat mistakes.