Hay quality

[jrn28]

How many people actually test their hay? I have baled some sudan hay and got it tested. It's crude protein percent seemed way to low at 5%. What I don't get is I have a group of cows in a lot that have been eating this hay and honestly they look great.
How could they be keeping condition with only a 5% hay?
I do feed cubes but very minimal only too train em to come to a pen.

 

[Bigfoot]

How many people actually test their hay? I have baled some sudan hay and got it tested. It's crude protein percent seemed way to low at 5%. What I don't get is I have a group of cows in a lot that have been eating this hay and honestly they look great.
How could they be keeping condition with only a 5% hay?
I do feed cubes but very minimal only too train em to come to a pen.

I have all my hay tested. I've never dipped that low. I actually thought wheat straw tested about like your hay. IDK. How long have they been on it, and do they have access to any grass what so ever?

 

[jrn28]

The only thing they have access to is 1 acre of wheat stubble and they have been on it since the 4 of July. My wheat hay was at 10%.

 

[highgrit]

Our hay tested the best ever for us 10+% protein and 60% TDN and RFQ 99.9%

 

[TexasBred]

How many people actually test their hay? I have baled some sudan hay and got it tested. It's crude protein percent seemed way to low at 5%. What I don't get is I have a group of cows in a lot that have been eating this hay and honestly they look great.
How could they be keeping condition with only a 5% hay?
I do feed cubes but very minimal only too train em to come to a pen.

About right for sudan especially if it was long overdue cutting. Too many folks wait until it's head high and headed out before cutting. Protein and digestibility go down every day. But fed along with some range cubes it will work.

 

[jrn28]

Thanks for responding. I cut it earlier than some of the other local farmers. I didn't want too much stem. About 30% headed out. Would applying more nitrogen help bring up the protein?
I don't know if it was true but a local told me not to apply nitrogen preplanting because it would burn out the plant at a young stage, would that be true?

 

[J&D Cattle]

I always test our hay. We end up baling or buying off of different properties so none of it is the same. I like to know how much if any to supplement based off of necessary nutritional requirements.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

We test all our hay also. How do you know what your cows need if you don't? You could be wasting supplements (and money) when you don't need them (because your hay is sufficient), or worse, waiting until your cows seem thin (at which point it is too late) to decide to supplement.
Just our thing, and since testing is cheap and easy ($20 a test), why not?

 

[novatech]

How could they be keeping condition with only a 5% hay?

They eat more of it. Cows eating in the pasture are often eating low quality forage. Good high capacity cattle will do well (easy keepers) and the flat sided will usually get poor (hard keepers). The more gut the more they can extract from the forage.

 

[Limomike]

I have tested before in the past. I still supplement, no matter if I test or not, and I dont consider it a waste at all. If the cows are in good shape, and I can keep them in good shape through the winter, its good.

 

[novatech]

I have never sent in a sample for a test. I think it is a waste of time and money unless your selling hay.
My cattle have been testing my hay and pasture quality. When I go to the pasture all I have to do is look at their droppings (poop).
Here is an article posted by stockman12 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:47 pm.
http://www.feedsandfeeding.com/index.php?next=cowpie

 

[Bigfoot]

I have never sent in a sample for a test. I think it is a waste of time and money unless your selling hay.
My cattle have been testing my hay and pasture quality. When I go to the pasture all I have to do is look at their droppings (poop).
Here is an article posted by stockman12 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:47 pm.
http://www.feedsandfeeding.com/index.php?next=cowpie

You, or someone has posted this before. My dad feeds according to the cow pies. Not sure if I ever understood what he was looking for. I know he goes by height and texture. He always gets adg, I do know that. Sold a group last week that were scratching on 3 pounds per day. That's not bad in the heat we've had.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I have never sent in a sample for a test. I think it is a waste of time and money unless your selling hay.
My cattle have been testing my hay and pasture quality. When I go to the pasture all I have to do is look at their droppings (poop).
Here is an article posted by stockman12 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:47 pm.
http://www.feedsandfeeding.com/index.php?next=cowpie

That was a very interesting article novatech, thanks for posting.

 

[James T]

I would look at the poop test as a verification of good hay test results. Let's say you go out and spend a few hundred to thousands of dollars on hay without knowing anything about it, deciding to rely on the poop test. If your poop tests indicate not enough protein, it's not like you can take all that hay back to the seller and get a refund. Your stuck with it. Same goes with using the poop test on evaluating your live pasture grasses. Why not do a soil test instead, make the soil amendments and then test the grass to see if the amendments did the trick? Spending $20 on a hay or grass test is a lot cheaper than getting stuck with lousy hay or lousy live grass, which brings up another point. It never ceases to amaze how many people assume that because they have green grass then it must have high nutritional value.

 

[TexasBred]

How could they be keeping condition with only a 5% hay?

They eat more of it. Cows eating in the pasture are often eating low quality forage. Good high capacity cattle will do well (easy keepers) and the flat sided will usually get poor (hard keepers). The more gut the more they can extract from the forage.

Actually lower quality hay won't allow them to consume as much as they'd like as it's digested (what little is digested) much slower and moves through the digestive system much slower. Low quality forage would be somewhat different as it's high moisture adn they actually can eat all they can gather up. The NDF on your hay test is a good indicator of the "fill factor" of hay. Many of those "easy keepers" may maintain body condition but reduce milk production.

 

[novatech]

Actually lower quality hay won't allow them to consume as much as they'd like as it's digested (what little is digested) much slower and moves through the digestive system much slower. Low quality forage would be somewhat different as it's high moisture adn they actually can eat all they can gather up. The NDF on your hay test is a good indicator of the "fill factor" of hay. Many of those "easy keepers" may maintain body condition but reduce milk production.

TB if I wanted info on feed or cattle nutrition you would one of the first people I would go to for info. Haveing said this I still have to disagree with you on this. At present I have a Brahman bull and 4 Hereford cows penned up for breeding. These cattle started off on Tifton 85 hay. Judging by their droppings the hay was well over 12% protein. I changed over to some spring cut low quality hay. It was full of old spear grass from winter, unfertilized Tifton and Johnson grass. The cattle consumed over double the amount as the good Tifton. The droppings thickened some but did not stack up. The cattle were also supplemented with a 12% protein complete feed, for the mineral than for feed value. The were fed 10 lbs per day. Not each but all together.
The milk production does not seem to be hurting. But then I am not weighing the calves. The bcs of the cows and bull also do not seem the be diminishing.
Another thing is that my pastures are extremely dried out (Greening up from a recent 1 inch shower). The cattle have maintained a very good body condition and are raising good fat fast growing calves. I attribute this to being good highly efficient cattle, the right breeding with the right phenotype.
PS. I just want to add my favorite expression. I don't always know what I think I know. Most of my knowledge comes from close observation, experience (60 years of doing something wrong don't make it right ) and listening to people like you and a few others on these boards, and elsewhere.

 

[Nesikep]

We have never tested our hay, as every field (5 ac average size) is different, and changes in content from year to year. the previous owner of the place did, and apparently had the highest protein hay Ag Canada had ever tested up to that time, this was probably a 100% alfalfa hay, while we have usually about 40% in the first cut, and maybe 60% in the second cut.

Don't forget that salt intake (as well as apples, potatoes, etc) can change cow pie consistency a lot.

I have some easy keeping cows, and some hard doers, but all in all they gain condition without being heavily fed through the winter, and never see any supplement other than minerals

I would like to do some hay tests, just which field do I pick?? Do they test for any minerals in the hay as well?

 

[dun]

We have never tested our hay, as every field (5 ac average size) is different, and changes in content from year to year. the previous owner of the place did, and apparently had the highest protein hay Ag Canada had ever tested up to that time, this was probably a 100% alfalfa hay, while we have usually about 40% in the first cut, and maybe 60% in the second cut.

Don't forget that salt intake (as well as apples, potatoes, etc) can change cow pie consistency a lot.

I have some easy keeping cows, and some hard doers, but all in all they gain condition without being heavily fed through the winter, and never see any supplement other than minerals

I would like to do some hay tests, just which field do I pick?? Do they test for any minerals in the hay as well?

Take samples from several bales from each field and combine them then have that batch tested. I wouldn;t test all the fields, maybe 4-5 fo them. You may be surprised at how close the numbers are for each of them. If they aer widely differnt then I would test each field. The results will vary, obviously, by the composition of the hay and also the fertilization of them.

 

[TexasBred]

[
PS. I just want to add my favorite expression. I don't always know what I think I know. Most of my knowledge comes from close observation, experience (60 years of doing something wrong don't make it right ) and listening to people like you and a few others on these boards, and elsewhere.

:clap: :clap: Love it......I still believe if they are forced to eat the lower quality hay long enough you'll see loss of body condition or loss of milk if lactating. But, then again you've got brahman. They seem to defy every rule of nutrition which is "a good thing".