Harlen's Cattle Price Cycle Update ?

Stocker Steve":36hvd8jg said:
Land and land rent seem to defy economics. I have seen a couple area reports where land prices are up two to three percent even though farm income continues to decline. Any theory why?
For the life of me, I can not figure this phenomenon out!? What is driving it?
I understand in some areas around here. The adult childrern are selling off the farms to developers and it's being transitioned into subdivisions for the people trying to escape Chicago and NW Indiana. But farm ground down here by me is too far for those looking to escape the windy city; and yet, it's still holding strong in challenging times for agricultural profitibility. I wish i knew what piece of the puzzle I am overlooking. :???:
 
bball":iiiyjrk8 said:
Stocker Steve":iiiyjrk8 said:
Land and land rent seem to defy economics. I have seen a couple area reports where land prices are up two to three percent even though farm income continues to decline. Any theory why?
For the life of me, I can not figure this phenomenon out!? What is driving it?
I understand in some areas around here. The adult childrern are selling off the farms to developers and it's being transitioned into subdivisions for the people trying to escape Chicago and NW Indiana. But farm ground down here by me is too far for those looking to escape the windy city; and yet, it's still holding strong in challenging times for agricultural profitibility. I wish i knew what piece of the puzzle I am overlooking. :???:

Land; they’re not making anymore of it.
 
TennesseeTuxedo":36mlm729 said:
Land; they’re not making anymore of it.

Some land is going out of cultivation in the USA each year. But there is a lot of new ag land available in Africa and South America. Just takes a match to burn down some more rainforest. That is part of how they under cut us on grain and beef prices. They make new low cost ranch and farm land every year.
 
Calves up a nickel here this week. Kill cows still a glut on the market.

Reputation herd of cows dispersed yesterday in Williams Lake, I doubt they averaged $1400. Good set of cows too. Feed a big issue in this area this year.
 
Stocker Steve":1xkg67fz said:
TennesseeTuxedo":1xkg67fz said:
Land; they’re not making anymore of it.

Some land is going out of cultivation in the USA each year. But there is a lot of new ag land available in Africa and South America. Just takes a match to burn down some more rainforest. That is part of how they under cut us on grain and beef prices. They make new low cost ranch and farm land every year.

Sorry, thought we were talking about the USA vis a vis land cost.
 
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sstterry":2vcw03h3 said:
November 2018 Cattle on Feed Report says inventories are up 3% over 2017. It will get worse before it gets better.
Sadly, I have to basically agree. I do think we will see a bit of an uptick after the first of the year, maybe into the early spring, but not a whole lot. It looks like we will be holding alot of our calves for after the new year. Maybe sell one group of the bigger calves in about 2 weeks, but that will depend on the weather. I think there will be a little better prices for cull cows once this glut gets through the pipeline, but still not a whole lot. The fats ready to kill now aren't too bad. With more people working, and with all the job wanted signs, I am assuming that there are more people working, there is more disposable income and the prices of meat in the grocery stores sure is not going down; so I am assuming that the meat is selling. There is more and more movement through the fast food markets and the restaurants seem to be doing a good business and that is where the meat makes the money.
I think that 2019 and 202 are going to be tough for the cow/calf producer. The next big thing is where the next elections go. I am a conservative. I don't agree with everything Trump is doing. But it is pretty much fact that we do have to get more fairness in the trade arena. And it is gonna hurt until it gets evened out. The thing is, every time a Republican comes into office, the agriculture section is the one that seems to suffer the greatest for the first little bit. Then as it starts to get better, it seems that the Democrats get in and they get all the credit. Then it just goes in these cycles.
The cattle cycles have not been normal for the past 15-20 years. The horrific fires in 2017, and the droughts in certain parts hurt, and then there is this OVER ABUNDANCE of rain that we have had here this year have really made the past 2 years a challenge. After the way too high prices in 2013-2014. There will always be droughts, and there will always be areas that have too much precip, but it seems to be in ways that lately do not keep things on a cycle. A 8-12 year cycle was pretty normal, but the swings were not so volatile. Now it is anyone's guess. And being in this "world market" a disease could change it in a heartbeat.
There is a drought in parts of Europe now and they are wondering how they will feed cattle this winter. More beef is going to market there, lighter, to cut their inventories. It does trickle down to us to some extent.
Maybe this JBS mess will hurt us by people not buying or eating beef. I don't think so. They may be a big player, but it seems they are one of the worst in the game.
I am hoping we can survive this. But as we all get older, and many are in the 60+ range, it makes you wonder why you keep fighting it and think maybe just to get out and try to enjoy what years you have left. The younger ones will more likely go the route like the poultry and hogs, and do so on contract to a buyer, and then be a slave to them although there is something to be said for not having all the risk on you and having to take the swings. But, I do not want to be beholden to any big company or at their whim to decide that they are not going to take your beef in 6 months and then where do you go.
It has hit the dairy farmers that way too, with forcing so many to go out with lower milk prices except for the farms that are getting bigger and then they pay a premium if they can pick up at least a 1/2 tanker at a farm.
This will affect us all, and will also affect the genetic diversity in the long run. We will lose genetics except for a few here and there who do not produce enough to suffer from low prices because they only raise the number of cattle that they can afford to market/eat/give away and are not dependent on it for their living.
I feel for the next couple of generations.
 
We are. Commodities are in a global market. If they can produce ground beef cheaper in Brazil, then the operational return on lands in the US will be lower. If the return on USA land is lower, then the price and the rent SHOULD both be lower. But they are not in my area. Assessed values are still going up. Rents are sticky.

Some land buyers factor appreciation into their bids. I think they call that a Ponzi scheme. But that still does not explain renting land for a loss.

I spoke to medium sized grain farm renter (who works out) recently. He said his farming goal for next year is to make the tractor payment... Hard to compete against people who will work for free.
 
Stocker Steve":3e078r5y said:
sstterry":3e078r5y said:
November 2018 Cattle on Feed Report says inventories are up 3% over 2017. It will get worse before it gets better.

There is a cattle production cycle, which occurs before the cattle price cycle.

And that cattle production cycle got a huge shot in the azz when the breds and cow/calfs were bringing 2,000 plus in the 2014 era and they are now trying to get as many calves out of them for as long as they can to try to justify those too high prices. Fewer beef cows are being culled, the greater number of culls now seems to be dairy cattle. Problem is that won't really dry up with all the bigger dairies still using sexed semen, getting more heifers, and sending cull dairy cows down the road after 2 lactations.
It will take some more culling of older beef cows to get it back into any kind of a balance here. No telling what other countries will be doing in the long run.
 
I am somewhat surprised at the lower beef prices quoted on here.

Saw a farm report that with the African Swine Flu in China, it could bring them to the table sooner rather than later to discuss the tariff situation.

Also it was said that with the ASF, that China is going to need lots of pork, maybe more than what Europe and the US can provide, so things are looking good possibly for pork producers.

It was also mentioned that as some of the other proteins (pork & poultry) are getting higher, then beef consumption in the US will go up.

If this is the case, who is profiting from all of this? Sure isn't the farmer!
 
Lots of commodity producer have assumed in the past that China will buy everything produced, and were very disappointed when this was not true. Common sense tells you that you don't want a single country to be your dominate export customer. Just too many ways for one or both governments to screw thing up... At some point the US will need to face up to our overproduction issues.
 
A little down turn won't hurt my feelings. I have been working on a couple lease places. These ladies inherit them and their wanna be husbands, sons, & son-n-laws can't wait to get in the cattle business as soon as the old man is in the ground. The above average rains have been slowing the fall but a good price drop will do them in. They won't be able to come up with the cash to feed their hobby and "momma" will eventually cut them off.
 

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