My horse was abused when he was really young while he was tied up and that has stuck with him forever. Now he pulls back everytime we tie him up. I tried a thick heavy duty intertube around the tying post, but he snapped it. I don't want to risk any neck breaking with the "be nice halter". Advice?
Halter Pulling...
- Thread starter myvinnie
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He breaks the halter because he knows he can. Does he break the Parreli (sp) halter also? If so use two or three. One of the best things you can do is get a stronger rope and halter and tie him high so you don't risk a neck injury, more important don't you get hurt. I know that kind of goes against PNH training, but I bet if you email them they will either not have an answer or a pretty close one to mine.
JMO,
ALan
JMO,
ALan
I luv herfrds
Well-known member
Alan he broke the inner tube not the halter.
myvinnie have you tried the halter that Alan recommened? What type of halter do you use?
Maybe try another inner tube.
Go back to the basics.
We will tie up a new horse just for a few seconds each day.
Try just leading him up to the post and stand there for a few seconds. If he stands quietly reward him with a small handful of oats. Make it a positive experience.
This will take quite awhile.
If he no longer shows signs of being tense or nervous about the post then try just placing the rope on the post and see if he will stand still. If he does reward.
Just move forward with baby steps.
Patience is the best thing for this.
My neighbor had an abused horse when I was younger. You couldn't touch her ears. I would do that slow and reward approach with her ears. When they sold her a person could finally touch her ears. Took a long time though.
Good luck.
myvinnie have you tried the halter that Alan recommened? What type of halter do you use?
Maybe try another inner tube.
Go back to the basics.
We will tie up a new horse just for a few seconds each day.
Try just leading him up to the post and stand there for a few seconds. If he stands quietly reward him with a small handful of oats. Make it a positive experience.
This will take quite awhile.
If he no longer shows signs of being tense or nervous about the post then try just placing the rope on the post and see if he will stand still. If he does reward.
Just move forward with baby steps.
Patience is the best thing for this.
My neighbor had an abused horse when I was younger. You couldn't touch her ears. I would do that slow and reward approach with her ears. When they sold her a person could finally touch her ears. Took a long time though.
Good luck.
myvinnie":23futga3 said:
Run a lariat type rope around the horses body just behind the front legs, between the front legs, up through the ring on the halter, and then tie him with that rope. When he tries to pull back, the rope tightens around his body. Be prepared for him to fight it the first few times. This is how we broke one of our mares(she had been injured while tied up) from pulling back when tied.
I luv herfrds":2xi05vcc said:
It really doesn't matter what the horse breaks to get free. If the horse knows if they pull back hard enough it will break, halter, lead, inner tube they will try to break it every time. You have to make it very uncomfortable for the horse to try to break it. So for halters with pressure points, or the gadgets that apply pressure. But you also have to be ready for a wreck, on the flip side what good is a horse that won't tie? My gelding started pulling back a few years ago, and he broke the snap on the cross tie, from then on he would try to break free everytime until I got rough with him. I had him in the natural halter, with pressure points, had him tied in a cross tie without snaps, just rope, (tied high). A freind and good horseman was holding a third rope, lead rope if you will, and I stood in back to the side with a whip. It was the last time he tried to pull and break free. When he pulled back it hurt, when he stood like he should he got reward, not grain just soft word and rubs. Positive and negitive reinforcment. Make sure you are safe and have a safe exit incase there is a wreck.
JMO,
Alan
I luv herfrds
Well-known member
The reward system with the grain was taught to my son at a 4-H horse clinic.
The horse they used did not like having his feet cleaned. The trainer showed the kids that when the horse stood still and did not pull away to give him just a bit of grain.
I know with a halter the reward is normally the release of pressure, but each horse is different, especially an abused one.
JMO.
The horse they used did not like having his feet cleaned. The trainer showed the kids that when the horse stood still and did not pull away to give him just a bit of grain.
I know with a halter the reward is normally the release of pressure, but each horse is different, especially an abused one.
JMO.
He breaks the halters and ropes too but I haven't tried the PNH halter cuz i don't want him to break it and they are so expensive. Thanks I'm going to need all the luck i can get.I luv herfrds":3g2rrlun said:
Myvinnie,
I just read your post about being 13, congrats it's a great time to love and to enjoy horses. I have been raising a training horses for over 25 yrs, so here's a word of caution about rewarding with treats. I mean food, be it grain or carrots or peppermint candy. I have seen many horses that go and stick there nose in the owners or trainers pockets and then start to push them with their nose. In short the horse is all over them and after a short time they refuse to work unless they get their treat. I really hate giving treats as a reward for doing the right thing. The way I reward my horse is a rub or a scratch in the right place or a kind reassuring word. Don't get me wrong if I'm going down my barn isle our out in the turnout and I expect nothing from them, most of the time I have some peppermint candy, licorice whips (red), a slice of apple to give them as a treat. My wife also makes sure they have carrots and apples included in their grain most every day.
I train much like Parrelli does, but I also use a lot of Clinton Anderson's and Chris Cox's techniques. If you ever get a chance to see how Clinton Anderson trains a horse to load in a trailer it's great. Positive and negitive reinforcment without touching the horse, unless the horse challanges him. My wife and I have been to PNH clinic a few times, including the clinic he holds every year at his place in Colorado. We have also been to his place in Ocala, Fl., but not during the clinic he has there. Pat is good but he does not have every answer for every horse. But I do like the natural horse training techniques.
My horse discovered he could break out of the cross ties and he did every time I tied him for a few times. He got dangerous in the ties, I could not tie him in the isle with or without other horses, I couldn't tie him to the trailer or a post. So desperate times calls for a good amount of negitive reinforcment. But never when he is doing what you want, only while he is acting up, you have about a 3 second window while he is acting up to correct the problem. This was a couple of years ago, my horse now cross ties just fine, I can turn him in with a piece of baling twine over the top of his neck, I even trust him in to ground tie, but if there is a chance I may have miles to walk I still find a good tree to tie to. Kind of a trust everyone and brand your calves deal.
If you don't want to risk breaking the rope halter you may try using two of the regular halters and securing the horse very well with heavy duty stuff, rope, clips and double halter. Make sure you tie the horse to something that won't pull out, like a good size tree. Also make sure you tie the horse with the tied off end higher then the head, this will really reduce the pressure on the neck and chance of injury. You have to have a horse that can be tied around other horses.
Good luck and think twice about the treats as a reward, they should be exactly what they are called.... a treat not a reward.
Alan
I just read your post about being 13, congrats it's a great time to love and to enjoy horses. I have been raising a training horses for over 25 yrs, so here's a word of caution about rewarding with treats. I mean food, be it grain or carrots or peppermint candy. I have seen many horses that go and stick there nose in the owners or trainers pockets and then start to push them with their nose. In short the horse is all over them and after a short time they refuse to work unless they get their treat. I really hate giving treats as a reward for doing the right thing. The way I reward my horse is a rub or a scratch in the right place or a kind reassuring word. Don't get me wrong if I'm going down my barn isle our out in the turnout and I expect nothing from them, most of the time I have some peppermint candy, licorice whips (red), a slice of apple to give them as a treat. My wife also makes sure they have carrots and apples included in their grain most every day.
I train much like Parrelli does, but I also use a lot of Clinton Anderson's and Chris Cox's techniques. If you ever get a chance to see how Clinton Anderson trains a horse to load in a trailer it's great. Positive and negitive reinforcment without touching the horse, unless the horse challanges him. My wife and I have been to PNH clinic a few times, including the clinic he holds every year at his place in Colorado. We have also been to his place in Ocala, Fl., but not during the clinic he has there. Pat is good but he does not have every answer for every horse. But I do like the natural horse training techniques.
My horse discovered he could break out of the cross ties and he did every time I tied him for a few times. He got dangerous in the ties, I could not tie him in the isle with or without other horses, I couldn't tie him to the trailer or a post. So desperate times calls for a good amount of negitive reinforcment. But never when he is doing what you want, only while he is acting up, you have about a 3 second window while he is acting up to correct the problem. This was a couple of years ago, my horse now cross ties just fine, I can turn him in with a piece of baling twine over the top of his neck, I even trust him in to ground tie, but if there is a chance I may have miles to walk I still find a good tree to tie to. Kind of a trust everyone and brand your calves deal.
If you don't want to risk breaking the rope halter you may try using two of the regular halters and securing the horse very well with heavy duty stuff, rope, clips and double halter. Make sure you tie the horse to something that won't pull out, like a good size tree. Also make sure you tie the horse with the tied off end higher then the head, this will really reduce the pressure on the neck and chance of injury. You have to have a horse that can be tied around other horses.
Good luck and think twice about the treats as a reward, they should be exactly what they are called.... a treat not a reward.
Alan
flaboy?
Well-known member
I had one that wanted to pull back when tied. He broke some stuff so I tied him to a telephone pole for a couple hours and walked away. I figured if he hurt himself I wouldn't see it. A couple days of this and he could be tied with a ruber band and not pull back.
if this was my horse, the first thing i'd try is make sure you don't tie the horse too loosely, use a rope halter and a tree, then get away. (as a side note, i've never heard of msscamp suggestion, but it sounds like a pretty clever idea!)
whatever you decide to do (and there's some good suggestions already), make sure you keep your horses health in mind, but MORE IMPORTANTLY, keep YOUR health in mind. tying a horse - especially one with the problems yours has - can be incredibly dangerous. a little girl got killed around here a couple years ago when she tried to untie a stallion that was going crazy. my wife also has had a big chunk out of her arm since she was 6 when she tried to untie a gelding that was tied in a trailer and was throwing a fit.
whatever you decide to do (and there's some good suggestions already), make sure you keep your horses health in mind, but MORE IMPORTANTLY, keep YOUR health in mind. tying a horse - especially one with the problems yours has - can be incredibly dangerous. a little girl got killed around here a couple years ago when she tried to untie a stallion that was going crazy. my wife also has had a big chunk out of her arm since she was 6 when she tried to untie a gelding that was tied in a trailer and was throwing a fit.
You need to use a quick releas knot, with a long release line, with whatever method you wind up using. This is just good practical safety.
I have seen lots of good suggestions on here. I think any number of them would work givin the right circumstances.
When you say you used a heavy duty innertube, what exactly do you mean by heavy duty. If it was a heavy duty bicycle innertube then it really want big enough. You need to use a full size tube from a full size car or truck. They can and will still break it if they try hard enough though. Then you can use two. Its still cheaper than the halter. Make sure the tube is higher than the head so there isnt so much pressure on the horse or the tube. Be sure to tie him short and maybe even put a panel behind him to prevent his ability to continue backing.
The only way to cure his problem is to find something he cant break. As stated before, as long as he thinks he can break his tie by pulling he will keep trying.
I have seen lots of good suggestions on here. I think any number of them would work givin the right circumstances.
When you say you used a heavy duty innertube, what exactly do you mean by heavy duty. If it was a heavy duty bicycle innertube then it really want big enough. You need to use a full size tube from a full size car or truck. They can and will still break it if they try hard enough though. Then you can use two. Its still cheaper than the halter. Make sure the tube is higher than the head so there isnt so much pressure on the horse or the tube. Be sure to tie him short and maybe even put a panel behind him to prevent his ability to continue backing.
The only way to cure his problem is to find something he cant break. As stated before, as long as he thinks he can break his tie by pulling he will keep trying.
The rope around the middle and run through the halter is good way also a long lead rope and let it slide a little before it tightens up and when they jump forward it lets off.If you have to tie one up that you think or know will set back use a longer lead rope maby 15ft or longer run it throught ring or the post on the fence or what ever you do tie one to then run the end of the rope to the next post or another tree what ever is handy to where you are and tie it there not infront of the horse.Then when they get in a jam if they do you can get to the rope to untie it and not be infront of the horse or near him.You can get him loose from the other side of the fence or tree.The knot will not get as tight if you wrap the rope one turn around what ever you tie the horse that is directly infront of him.You can untie him from a distance that way.Also the best piece of equipment you can have on you is a real sharp knife you can cut a rope faster and easier than you can untie a hard pulled down knot.
TANGLES123
Active member
I think everybody has great ideas---for an adult... This young person is not old enough to try alot of these ideas (safely). I would recommend your parents take the horse to a professional and get his/her opinion and go from there. Perhaps, you may have to get an animal more suited for you. I remember you saying he was an abused horse at some point and sometimes it takes a very experienced professional to change the bad that has been done to them. Bless your heart for trying to give him a better life...
I luv herfrds":2gq1o29b said:
I would be very, very careful with this approach. It can turn a well-behaved, respectful horse into a disrepectful, nosy, in-your-face(pockets, etc) horse in a very short time frame.
Tangles, I agree with you. I wasn't aware the owner of this horse was 13 until now, or I wouldn't have suggested what I suggested.
flaboy?
Well-known member
msscamp":12rvn7jo said:
Ah, just add "to be done under adult supervision" to msscamps suggestion.
