GV Bulls question

[Prairiegrass]

I need to make a decision this week on keeping heifers and could use some help from the Gelbvieh breeders here. I want cows moderately framed, no more than the Gelbvieh breed average for milk, must have good udders, feet and legs. I have used gelbvieh bulls on black and bwf cows for 13 years. I was keeping heifers out of a SelectSires bull Lchmn z138. Heifers had the right size, milk, udders, temperament – but needed more growth. Especially needed more growth out of his steers. Needing more growth, I started using Judd ranch bulls on my baldy cows. I have used Free Agent in the past and had good, not spectacular, results. I went to him not for calving ease, but the size is right, they have good temperaments, good mothers, good udders and the steers grow. They are a little short on milk as 2-3 year olds- about what I would expect from an EPD milk of 10. It’s also easier to have nice udders when you’re not milking. Hoping for more I went to TopSecret. Now I have some Top Secret daughters and I question whether I should keep them. They are in general a little bigger than the Free Agents, grow a little faster and while I thought I’d never say it, carry almost too much capacity for females. I’m willing to take a chance on a little more frame size and temper it with a smaller frame Angus bull. However, I am concerned they will milk even less than the Free Agents. The milk epds are the same, but with TopSecret being double bred Freedom I don’t see how I could get more milk. I have two good looking, very good growth Top Secret heifers out of solid EXT dams, but don’t want to make a 10 year mistake by keeping cows that won’t milk as well as the cows coming out of my Angus bulls (milk epds of 25-28). I know Judd Ranch has a good reputation, but wonder if I’m letting reputation and/or marketing cloud my common sense. I’d like to hear some honest civil opinions about this Free Agent/TopSecret maternal line, but I sure don’t want to rip anyone’s genetics. Any thoughts from others using this line? Thanks.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I'm sorry you're not getting any response from your detailed question. We mustn't have very many GV breeders.
"carry almost too much capacity for females"
Do you actually mean "middle" capacity? or too heavy in the front end along with thick all over?

 

[Prairiegrass]

Thanks for the reply. Actually, I somehow double posted the same message and I got one response to my question couple lines above this. In answer to your question, I did mean capacity. I've got a TopSecret first calf heifer you could drive a truck between her front legs. Her middle is huge. I always though I liked "broody" females, but there is a limit.

 

[3waycross]

Try these two bulls

HYEK Black Impact
http://bullbarn.com/gelbepd.asp?ID=281

and

EGL Northern Wind.
http://bullbarn.com/gelbepd.asp?ID=344

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I like the looks of the first bull. The second bull is also line bred - not that I have anything agains line breeding - just not real impressed with his looks.
I got an Accelerated book last night & checked - not one GV bull in it. It's got to be frustrating to be limited to access.

 

[dun]

I like the looks of the first bull. The second bull is also line bred - not that I have anything agains line breeding - just not real impressed with his looks.
I got an Accelerated book last night & checked - not one GV bull in it. It's got to be frustrating to be limited to access.

The Bullbarn, ABS, Genex and Cattlevisions are about the only sources. Bullbarn has the best selection of black and RED Gelbviehs

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I don't have the 2011 books, but my ABS has 4 listed and Genex doesn't have any, unless they have them online. Just saying, they are limited genetics through AI

 

[dun]

I don't have the 2011 books, but my ABS has 4 listed and Genex doesn't have any, unless they have them online. Just saying, they are limited genetics through AI

Not as limited as you might think
http://bullbarn.com/gelbprice.asp

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Yup - that's a good supply.

 

[dun]

Yup - that's a good supply.

Genex only has 2 bulls, not sure about their added attraction bulls. But for added attractions they have Pinzgaur, lowlines, Normade, etc. so I would think there would be a Gelbvieh in there too somewhere
From the Bullbarn you can knock of about 2/3 of the bulls because they're black

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

"From the Bullbarn you can knock of about 2/3 of the bulls because they're black"
Now, Dun, who's showing their prejudice now?? :lol2:
I admit it - whole heartedly - I'm bias towards Simmental :shock:

 

[Jovid]

I don't have the 2011 books, but my ABS has 4 listed and Genex doesn't have any, unless they have them online. Just saying, they are limited genetics through AI

Just because they are not listed does not mean there is not semen available. There are several breeders that have semen stored at Genex and ABS but choose not to pay to have it listed.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Slow but sure - we're digging them out of the woodpile. Before you know it, you will have a great selection. Aren't you glad you posted? If we all put our heads together, we can find anything.
Sorry, my bad. I promised to be good!
I'm really not trying to bash GV. I've just never seen any worth owning around here. I'm sure they must be a great breed.
I have seen some great Murry Greys, Scotch Highland, Belted Galloways (awesome!), but unless you want novelty, I would not recommend any of them, simply because they are minority breeds. I guess I consider Gv a minority breed.

 

[dun]

I don't have the 2011 books, but my ABS has 4 listed and Genex doesn't have any, unless they have them online. Just saying, they are limited genetics through AI

Just because they are not listed does not mean there is not semen available. There are several breeders that have semen stored at Genex and ABS but choose not to pay to have it listed.

In the added attractions they even have at least one Red Poll

 

[3waycross]

I guess I consider Gv a minority breed.

and that might be true where you live but in the midwest and west there are a lot of real good Gelbvieh cattle and a lot MORE cattle period. There is plenty of semen available if one knows where to look.

like this place,,,,,,,http://www.cattlemensconnection.com/

and funny thing is they don't carry any Simenthal semen. I guess that must mean that there are just not very many around the Kansas area. Who knows they might even be a minority breed out here.. Pretty silly logic eh?

and for the record I have seen some real nice Simenthal they were red and white.........

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

OK 3Way - I was being bad. We're still friends? :oops:
But, saying I considered them to be a minority breed was not bashing them. Like I said, I have seen some awesome cattle that were minority breeds.
But, to set the record, I looked up the GV Assn membership.
Colorado - 31 members
Kansas - 77 members
NY - 5 members

And I never heard of the 5 members - so you can see why I haven't seen many. Also, they don't have any shows at the places we go to. Might be one down in Louisville?? I don't remember.

Simmental membership:
Colorado - they listed the first 500 members
Kansas - they listed the first 500 members
NY - they listed the first 500 members :shock: I didn't know there were that many cattlemen in NY!!

 

[3waycross]

Jeanne I just looked at the membership roster for the Colorado Simmental Assn and I count 27 members. Where do the other 473 members live.

Not trying to be a jerk but I just don't see it.

here's the link...http://www.coloradosimmental.com/membership.html

I forgot to add.......yes we are still friends ;-)

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

3Way - I got that info off of the American Simmental Assn and the American GV Assn.
But, I think they must have every person/farm that EVER was a member, because, as I said - 500+ members in NY :shock: We have about 100 NY Simm Assn. members - and not all of them are PB breeders.
And, trust me, I get your point. There are LOTS more of ALL BEEF CATTLE in the midwest. I got you beat on Holsteins though, I betya :banana: Believe it or not, we're the 3rd largest dairy state.

 

[Prairiegrass]

3waycross

Do you have any personal experience with either of the 2 bulls you listed? Thanks

 

[double v]

prairie grass what do you need to know about these bulls have seen plenty of offspring out of them. :bday: