Grazing corn as finish tool update

[SRBeef]

Over the past few days I delivered the first batch of beef quarters from my own raised steers that were intentionally finished and harvested at about 12 months off of grazing standing unharvested corn. We also grilled some for my own family this weekend for one son's college graduation party and I would have to say that is about the most tender beef I have ever had. The experiment looks like it is going to work out.

I was also pleasantly surprised at the amount of beef we got from animals that were lighter than average at harvest. It looks like the beef to bone ratio (higher than for heavier animals) makes up a bit for the lighter live weight. Not expected but a pleasant surprise. I should have some more reports back from the people that really count before too long.

Jim

edit: just have to figure out how to get more steaks out of a quarter (!) although the boneless rolled roasts are a favorite too

 

[Jogeephus]

Did you find that the meat fibers themselves seemed shorter and the texture a little different - more relaxed and less firm. (sorry I can't find the exact words to describe it)

 

[SRBeef]

Did you find that the meat fibers themselves seemed shorter and the texture a little different - more relaxed and less firm. (sorry I can't find the exact words to describe it)

I'm not sure about the meat fibers. Two characteristIcs were that when I sliced a steak to see if it was done (did not have the meat thermometer) my pocket knife cut it very cleanly and easily. Also we had a number of visitors and few sharp knives. Turned out you hardly needed a knife to cut it. A regular table knife worked fine. So I guess maybe the meat texture was finer than usual. Very tender. I wanted to check the burger and did find it difficult To make a burger that stayed together until cooked. So maybe your description is correct. Jim

 

[Jogeephus]

Reason I asked is I've done several experiments just to see the outcomes of different finishes. On the younger animals it seemed that while the marbling may not be as good as a larger animal the meat seemed more tender without the marbling. Like you say, the meat cut easily almost like bologna but firmer. I think the people that you say count will be well pleased with it. All mine were.

 

[SRBeef]

Reason I asked is I've done several experiments just to see the outcomes of different finishes. On the younger animals it seemed that while the marbling may not be as good as a larger animal the meat seemed more tender without the marbling. Like you say, the meat cut easily almost like bologna but firmer. I think the people that you say count will be well pleased with it. All mine were.

I think you have described it well. There was marbling but when I saw the ribeyes I was looking for more visual marbling. However as you point out the meat was extremely tender and flavorful without a lot of marbling.

This is exactly what most of my customers are looking for - taste and tenderness but minimal fat. Even the younger kids at our get together were asking for more steak. We cut up a sirloin and frankly there was not much difference between the ribeye and the sirloin as far as taste and tenderness goes.

Thanks for your feedback. jim

 

[SRBeef]

Reason I asked is I've done several experiments just to see the outcomes of different finishes. On the younger animals it seemed that while the marbling may not be as good as a larger animal the meat seemed more tender without the marbling. Like you say, the meat cut easily almost like bologna but firmer. I think the people that you say count will be well pleased with it. All mine were.

I have been thinking about your experiments and description, Jo. The more I think about it the more I think you are correct.

The use of the bologna as a comparison is maybe a bit too fine a texture for what I saw but it was definitely NOT the same as other steaks. I think that I have what I am looking for.

Jim

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The younger you harvest your animals, the more tender they should be. On a feedlot situation, our steers are generally finished to Choice at 14 months of age, and around 1350-1400# - but they would have been pushed harder than yours. I don't get to eat them - they are in a carcass evaluation program to benefit producers breeding programs.

 

[TexasBred]

Reason I asked is I've done several experiments just to see the outcomes of different finishes. On the younger animals it seemed that while the marbling may not be as good as a larger animal the meat seemed more tender without the marbling. Like you say, the meat cut easily almost like bologna but firmer. I think the people that you say count will be well pleased with it. All mine were.

Jogee most likely you've eaten more than one "well marbled" steak that was tuff as leather as well. Marbling is grossly over exaggerated when discussing tenderness. We've been eating meat from Limousin cattle for a couple of years now and it is very lean but the tenderness and flavor is out of this world.

 

[SRBeef]

Reason I asked is I've done several experiments just to see the outcomes of different finishes. On the younger animals it seemed that while the marbling may not be as good as a larger animal the meat seemed more tender without the marbling. Like you say, the meat cut easily almost like bologna but firmer. I think the people that you say count will be well pleased with it. All mine were.

Jogee most likely you've eaten more than one "well marbled" steak that was tuff as leather as well. Marbling is grossly over exaggerated when discussing tenderness. We've been eating meat from Limousin cattle for a couple of years now and it is very lean but the tenderness and flavor is out of this world.

One problem is that the USDA grading system is pretty much based solely on marbling, isn't it? Jim

 

[TexasBred]

Reason I asked is I've done several experiments just to see the outcomes of different finishes. On the younger animals it seemed that while the marbling may not be as good as a larger animal the meat seemed more tender without the marbling. Like you say, the meat cut easily almost like bologna but firmer. I think the people that you say count will be well pleased with it. All mine were.

Jogee most likely you've eaten more than one "well marbled" steak that was tuff as leather as well. Marbling is grossly over exaggerated when discussing tenderness. We've been eating meat from Limousin cattle for a couple of years now and it is very lean but the tenderness and flavor is out of this world.

One problem is that the USDA grading system is pretty much based solely on marbling, isn't it? Jim

I think you're right on that one Jim.

 

[Jogeephus]

I agree, bologna is a bad example I just can't find the word to describe the different texture. I think its interesting that you noticed the same. I'm sure there is some biological explanation. Maybe my next experiment will be raise some veal and so I'll have a good view each side of the spectrum.

 

[Douglas]

Jim, give us a brief summary of your experiement. Age of calves before starting to graze the corn, how long on corn, how many bushels do you figure went into the cows. In other words how could we translate your inputs to our operations. Just interested in the finishing phase. Daily gain, finish weights etc.Also, what would you do differnently next time?

 

[SRBeef]

Jim, give us a brief summary of your experiement. Age of calves before starting to graze the corn, how long on corn, how many bushels do you figure went into the cows. In other words how could we translate your inputs to our operations. Just interested in the finishing phase. Daily gain, finish weights etc.Also, what would you do differnently next time?

I don't know if this system would transfer to the Carolinas well but basically my current version is:

Calve in March, fenceline wean in November, put weaned steers and non retained heifers on standing unharvested corn Jan 1, harvest them in April just prior to need to spring strip till for corn again. I am looking at moving the corn-in date up to maybe mid Dec. I am concerned about taking calves from mama's milk and throwing them into a corn field. I think they need a hay transition period. Harvesting at 12-13 months they will be a little lighter than usual.

The key is to be able to raise good corn at low cost/low inputs. I strip till continuous RR corn very successfully (near 200 bu/a) but that is not easy and takes the right equipment. I have no idea on bushels but I do know I can get about 300 cow days grazing from and acre. But if finishing probably want them to graze a higher percent of ears than stalks so I'll probably keep that down around 200 CD for the first wave through.

I am considering a sequential grazing system where animals to be harvested get first crack at the standing corn then the retained cows and heifers can come in and clean up, in addition to their primary hay, after most of the ears are gone. This will help toward my original goal which is to use my own production corn to reduce the amount of expensive purchased hay I need to buy to get through the winter in WI. I don't/can't make my own hay.

Main lesson learned: do not have retained animals (bull, cows, retained heifers) grazing unharvested corn. It's just too rich for them. Hooves grow too fast, calves too large, etc. Harvested stalks are ok, unharvested with grain is not. My first winter went OK, problems started showing up in retained animals the second winter. Ear corn is basically for young animals to be harvested only.

I don't know that my ADG and weight data is for public consumption.

Caution however - most things are not as easy in practice as they sound reading it on a computer screen. This seems to be a system however that allows a small operator to produce lightly corn finished beef at home. Whether it is economically attractive or not may depend on many local factors.

Another caution: having them graze unharvested standing corn is very different from loading a steer stuffer with purchased grain.

jmho. Jim

 

[shaz]

How many acres per steer assuming you take them off when the ears are gone?
Also, if not corn, what would be your second choice crop?

 

[SRBeef]

How many acres per steer assuming you take them off when the ears are gone?
Also, if not corn, what would be your second choice crop?

You can figure that by the roughly 200 cow-days/acre number. I think at 200 CD/acre they will have eaten most of the ears. At least the ones still in the air.

I am a corn person. I have no idea how or if this would work with other crops. Most other crops do not stand well through the winter especially with the deep snow I often have, winds and/or just naturally drop their seeds.

There are many reasons corn is the way most beef is finished. Corn can be grown and harvested with much less equipment than say barley. Corn can be stored on the stalk. I also feel that, seeing my cattle eat ear corn, on the cob, there are many benefits to them taking in more than just pure grain.

No they don't get as fat but in this case that may be good. But I am just an ag machinery engineer who likes beef experimenting with cattle...

Jim

 

[linbul]

Jim,
It's a pleasure to follow the story of your farm and the experiments you are making. I've learned many interesting things from you personally. Have you considered writing a blog? It would benefit your marketing too.
Now about the corn grazing. You mentioned concerns about the weight and the switching from milk directly to corn. If there is enough pasture on your site, why not adjust the calving season to the late fall, so you could have the steers grazed grass for several months before turning them on corn grazing? I believe in this way steers could gain some more weight and their taste would develop greatly.
About the tenderness - it may be an outcome from the corn grazing, compared to corn feeding the steers are getting in the feedlots in the usual case. Here in Europe most of the beef farms are "confined", with limited movement of the cattle, just like in the dairy farms. There is a noticeable difference in tenderness between such "confined" meat and the traditionally grazing cattle, both getting similar feed.
Have a good luck. :tiphat:

 

[SRBeef]

Jim,
It's a pleasure to follow the story of your farm and the experiments you are making. I've learned many interesting things from you personally. Have you considered writing a blog? It would benefit your marketing too.
Now about the corn grazing. You mentioned concerns about the weight and the switching from milk directly to corn. If there is enough pasture on your site, why not adjust the calving season to the late fall, so you could have the steers grazed grass for several months before turning them on corn grazing? I believe in this way steers could gain some more weight and their taste would develop greatly.
About the tenderness - it may be an outcome from the corn grazing, compared to corn feeding the steers are getting in the feedlots in the usual case. Here in Europe most of the beef farms are "confined", with limited movement of the cattle, just like in the dairy farms. There is a noticeable difference in tenderness between such "confined" meat and the traditionally grazing cattle, both getting similar feed.
Have a good luck. :tiphat:

Thank you for the kind words, linbul.

My climate in W Wisconsin is VERY different from Bulgaria and S Europe. My winter temperatures have been as low as -30 deg F (= - 34 deg C). The seasons are very different. I won't get into a long discussion on calving season however, as my good cattleman neighbor points out, there are many reasons to calve when nature does - deer and other wildlife calve in the spring, not the fall....etc. I have other reasons.

I am also very different from you in that I am very land-limited. One goal of my experiment is to see how many pounds of quality beef I can raise per acre as well as profitably. Fall calving is not a possibility for me and my system for many reasons. I have no grass left to graze after weaning in early November. In fact I try to not graze my pastures too close starting in September so the plants can build some food reserves in the roots for the winter and spring greenup. Grazing too late in the year (prior to killing frost) kills the stand in my climate.

Personally I like to watch my cattle moving around, not standing in a confined lot. I am an engineer not a vet or physiologist (sp?). It is accepted that moving around (= "execise") in people builds muscle, as an engineer, I see no reason it would not do the same in cattle. Most confined dairy cattle do not look like they have much muscle.

It appears to me that tenderness can be maintained even though cattle get a lot of exercise. jmho. Jim

 

[shaz]

Thanks SRBeef,
I'm planning do do something similar on a small scale and would prefer corn but was looking for a plan B in case I couldn't get it planted in time.

 

[KMacGinley]

Jim: I hear what you are saying about Fall calving, but if you did fall calve, you could graze the milking cows on the corn, and then wean the calves in the spring, graze them all summer and then finish them on the new corn in the fall with their mothers and the new calf crop. This might bleed off some of the excess energy your cows are getting from the corn grazing when dry.

 

[SRBeef]

Jim: I hear what you are saying about Fall calving, but if you did fall calve, you could graze the milking cows on the corn, and then wean the calves in the spring, graze them all summer and then finish them on the new corn in the fall with their mothers and the new calf crop. This might bleed off some of the excess energy your cows are getting from the corn grazing when dry.

That's a good point and might work. However as far as what I see I do not want my cows on corn at all. They might burn up the extra but they might not. Can young calves take all the milk they might produce? The hoof trimmer who took care of my bull says at high level dairies he may trim the hooves twice a year.

My cattle are outwintered in the woods in a very cold climate area - I am not sure I want young calves going through a -20 or -30 degree F early January night.

The main reason I want to further develop this spring calving/spring harvest system is that there is a market for the beef now. The processors are also easier to work with in the spring than they are when swamped with deer and every one else's summer grazed cattle in the late fall.

I appreciate the idea and suggestion. Jim