Grass only operation

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coach4christ

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NW Louisiana
I have a question about grass fed operations. I hope that I am not using the wrong terminology when I ask this question. I have been doing a lot of research on kicking the hay habit and year round grazing. I have read numerouse books on the topics and I think that I am ready to head in that direction. I currently have around 150 acres of pasture land and another 40 acre hayfield that I can convert int grazing when the time comes. I am currently running 20 registered black angus cows, 8 bull calves (headed to sale in spring), 12 heifers, and 1 angus bull. Most are medium framed cows with about 5 large framed. My grass is currently about 45% common bermuda, 45% bahaia, 10% other. I usually get a good stand of winter rye on my pastures. I am planning on making the transition over the next couple of years and was wondering what I could do to "sweeten" my pastures up for winter grazing. I am very hesitant to totally get rid om my hayfield, but it would be a whole lot cheaper than paying 30 dollars a bale to make hay. How many of you do this? What concerns do you have? What suggestions do you experienced people have? Oh by the way, I am in North west Louisiana. Thanks for the help.

Coach
 
Contact your local NRCS offcie or your Extension Service. Attend a grazing school, that will give you a real leg up on pasture management
 
Thanks. I have done a ton of research. I was just interested in who has taken the plunge and done it. It is hard to turn loose of your hay operation.
 
Your hay field and your equipment is just a security blanket. In your location there is absolutely no reason IMO to make hay and to feed hay. Once you remove the hay albatross from your neck you will question why you ever thought you had to make hay. I took the plunge away from hay many years ago. Low and behold the herd survived, profits improved and life went on. I had the same reservations you now have and I had them again when I ceased to buy commercial fertilizer roughly 3 years ago.
 
Is it possible (yr round grazing) in the Ozarks Dun? Grass seems to go cold dormant not to mention snow on it in the midwest.
 
Thanks agmantoo, it is going to take me a couple of years to get everything set, but I know what you are saying about the albatross around my neck. The hay is a great security blanket, albeit an expensive one. My concern is when we go through drought conditions like we are in now. What do you do then? All the hay has been bought up and what is left is unaffordable. I am really going to try to make this work on our farm. Thanks for the help.
 
Goodlife":3ho089vb said:
Is it possible (yr round grazing) in the Ozarks Dun? Grass seems to go cold dormant not to mention snow on it in the midwest.
In more or less "normal" years it is except occasioanlly during the winter when the grass is covered with ice or snow. With a low enoughstocking rate you can graze all summer even though the grass has quit/slowed it's growth. But it requires either a lot of CSG or enough WSG to graze during that time. Then when you hit a spell like 2 months with no rain you're still pretty much peckerd because even the WSG stops growing.
In a normal year we feed hay in maybe very late March into April, some years we don;t feed any hay at all. This year we fed it in June & July (no rain) and 100+ temps colling off into the hgih 80s low 90s at night.
A couple of times we tried seeding rye grass to fill in during thr winter slump but it started coming on then got covered with ice/snow.
 
With snow no deeper than 6 to 8 inches or just an ice crust over the snow my cattle will take their muzzle and push the snow aside and graze the stockpiled fescue underneath. My pastures are impacted by drought as all are. One thing that I have noticed is that the impact is slower in setting in and that I can feed at least two months longer from onset of a drought than what my neighbors that do conventional grazing can feed. In 2003 we had drought sufficient enough that drought relief was implemented but I was not impacted and required no hay. The 2007/2008 drought was a different situation and it hit me hard.
Pic from 2009 with the cattle eating stockpiled fescue under light snow
IMG00663.jpg


Pic of what is under the snow
Miscpics021.jpg
 
Great picture of winter grazing agmantoo I never believed my cattle would eat through the snow until I watched them do it a few years ago. It was amazing how once one of them started the others watched and learned and picked right up on it. I have also learned that it is very important to have a stand where a few strands of grass are above the snow and you get solar wicking which allows the animals to see that there is grass under there and give them a good spot to dig in. I now make sure not to take a third cutting of hay to make sure the grass is tall enough before the snow flies.
 
coach4christ":3kjd2wjk said:
I have a question about grass fed operations. I hope that I am not using the wrong terminology when I ask this question. I have been doing a lot of research on kicking the hay habit and year round grazing. I have read numerouse books on the topics and I think that I am ready to head in that direction. I currently have around 150 acres of pasture land and another 40 acre hayfield that I can convert int grazing when the time comes. I am currently running 20 registered black angus cows, 8 bull calves (headed to sale in spring), 12 heifers, and 1 angus bull. Most are medium framed cows with about 5 large framed. My grass is currently about 45% common bermuda, 45% bahaia, 10% other. I usually get a good stand of winter rye on my pastures. I am planning on making the transition over the next couple of years and was wondering what I could do to "sweeten" my pastures up for winter grazing. I am very hesitant to totally get rid om my hayfield, but it would be a whole lot cheaper than paying 30 dollars a bale to make hay. How many of you do this? What concerns do you have? What suggestions do you experienced people have? Oh by the way, I am in North west Louisiana. Thanks for the help.

Coach


You plan is one year away from an O crap I am in the worst drought of my life and there is no hay to be had.
Might want to figure that one in on your grass only. Now you have enough land for the amount of cattle to stockpile a lot of grass, you could plant rye grass and rotational graze as well. You can't get some one to cut your hayfields on halves? Stockpiled hay is your lifesaver. If I hadn't had a years worth from last year there would be no cows here right now.
Now I believe in a cow eating grass and grass only from pasture to hay to stockpiled winter pasture as well as planted winter pasture. That all went out the window over the last couple of years. I could carry 40 cow's and I am at 11 now and have little to no grass.
 
Caustic, nailed it. Mother Nature is a cruel taskmaster. What is the dominate grass on your place , if its bahaia it aint woth a hoot stockpiled, because normally you will get too much rain in the winter and it will shatter the leaf structure. So if your gonna go all grass and no hay be ready to sell the whole herd if you hit a drought. Oh and dont forget, unless your soils are sandy, it can be too wet to graze ryegrass, then whats your plan?
 
houstoncutter
I am not trying to be argumentative with you or Caustic Burno. I also know that you folks in Texas have been experiencing a major drought and I do understand your drought attitude. I do not see any risk difference in making and having hay and doing year round grazing. Both are risky but IMO the year round grazing is far more profitable. When the hay is gone and the forage in the paddocks no longer exists are we not in the same position? We either buy hay or depopulate. In my case, by feeding the forage what could be made into hay and getting the return from those acres in non drought years I can carry more animals and carry them much cheaper yielding a much better return. Additionally, my forage acres provide feed over a much longer time period as compared to the seasonal yields of hay fields and conventional grazing. In 12 years I have experienced 1 severe drought that lasted 2 years and I had to feed hay for roughly 7 months and 1 extended dry period that upset my rotational grazing requiring supplemental feed for 30 days. A 3rd drought, that was severe enough that government assistance was provided, I weathered without any hay. In areas where it is feasible and done properly on a for profit operation, rotational grazing over extended seasons will return a far greater financial gain on grass and legumes only. The Australians realized this years ago.
 
I may never achieve year round grazing, but the goal is to reduce hay usage. I believe the hardest thing is getting the correct stock density and getting the right calving season. The other is realizing you will need to spend the time moving and adjusting temporary fencing to graze and develop rest periods for your grasses to grow back. Weather is weather and unpredictable. Currently I have some pastures way overgrazed because the creeks went dry in the one pasture. But I do have about 35-45 days of grazing in that pasture once the creeks start flowing sufficiently. I've had cows on cornstalks for about 2 month's and feeding hay now. You just have to make adjustments. I had hoped to have hay to sell but will need it because of the 3 month's of no rain and heat and not being able to build my grass supply. My current stocking rate may be(or was) too high, also.
 
I expect to graze 330 days this year. That'll be a record for me. If I can get to the point where I have some grazing all year and feed some hay I think the cows will be better off.

All the farms in my immediate area have been feeding hay for a month.
 
Part of what in the winter dictates wether you harvest the forage (hay) or the cow does (grazing) is the types of forage that can be grown succesfully in the area. It has to be a type of forage that lends itself to stockpiling. If that type doesn;t grow well in your area you're pretty much peckard if you try winter grazing. Having to plant wintr annuals to be able to graze in the winter probably isn;t much more if any, cheaper then putting up hay.
 
dun":30f5ttk1 said:
Part of what in the winter dictates wether you harvest the forage (hay) or the cow does (grazing) is the types of forage that can be grown succesfully in the area. It has to be a type of forage that lends itself to stockpiling. If that type doesn;t grow well in your area you're pretty much peckard if you try winter grazing. Having to plant wintr annuals to be able to graze in the winter probably isn;t much more if any, cheaper then putting up hay.


Especially if it comes up, get about an inch tall and NO RAIN.
 
I would need 270 round bales to just get by for Winter. Prior to rotational grazing it took 360 bales. Rotational grazing extended my grazing duration. If the hay was properly fertilized it would have roughly $7500 worth of fertilizer in it plus the cost of baling $2000 if I cut and raked the hay. This would total $9500. At $28 for 50 lbs of annual rye grass that would buy 339 sacks of seed. I only plant 30 lbs of annual rye per acre to the already fertile pasture that I have been grazing since Spring. I also only overseed the acreage (maximum 60 fescue acres with rye grass worst case) that I will be Winter grazing along with the fescue. Seed cost would not exceed $1008 plus the cost to drill. At $30/acre to drill this would come to $1800 for a total cost of $2808 to go through my Winter. There would be no equipment cost to feed the stockpiled feed which would be an added savings. I view this as a substantial savings of around $6692. Additionally I am using what would be hay land for grazing all year. To make hay and graze conventionally IMO I would need more acreage which is not available/justifiable.
 
agmantoo":1b8bsiy0 said:
I would need 270 round bales to just get by for Winter. Prior to rotational grazing it took 360 bales. Rotational grazing extended my grazing duration. If the hay was properly fertilized it would have roughly $7500 worth of fertilizer in it plus the cost of baling $2000 if I cut and raked the hay. This would total $9500. At $28 for 50 lbs of annual rye grass that would buy 339 sacks of seed. I only plant 30 lbs of annual rye per acre to the already fertile pasture that I have been grazing since Spring. I also only overseed the acreage (maximum 60 fescue acres with rye grass worst case) that I will be Winter grazing along with the fescue. Seed cost would not exceed $1008 plus the cost to drill. At $30/acre to drill this would come to $1800 for a total cost of $2808 to go through my Winter. There would be no equipment cost to feed the stockpiled feed which would be an added savings. I view this as a substantial savings of around $6692. Additionally I am using what would be hay land for grazing all year. To make hay and graze conventionally IMO I would need more acreage which is not available/justifiable.
Do you use ryegrass to overseed with exclusively or do you ever use Cereal rye? Are you drilling it in or just spreading it on top and then dragging it with a harrow?
Thanks
 
Banjo

I used to just apply about 20% more seed and broadcast, sometimes with the harrow then at other times no harrowing. I have even let the cattle "walk" the seed in. This year I sod drilled the rye grass in early on paddocks that had recently been grazed. I am also experimenting with cereal rye late in the planting season by both broadcasting and sod drilling immediately behind the cattle. I am attempting to see how late I can plant and still get something to graze late Winter and early Spring. I tend to get a little nervous around the end of Feb and early Mar with unpredictable weather. Delayed rain in the Fall has left me with shorter height stockpiled grass than usual.

Do you use ryegrass to overseed with exclusively or do you ever use Cereal rye? Are you drilling it in or just spreading it on top and then dragging it with a harrow?
Thanks
 
I read about feeding grass/legume seed directly to cattle and letting them spread it on the pasture themselves along with their own fertilizer. It sounds crazy but I think I might try it this winter. Anyone had any experience with this?
 

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