Good advice

[KNERSIE]

I was given the following advice a few years ago by a real old timer:

"always try to see every calf being born on your farm"

Although this isn't always possible and maybe it can be edited to be "always try to see every first calf heifer giving birth on your farm" it still is very sound advice.

I had a first calf heifer due on 29/9, but she didn't calf till today (bull calf of course). It was an easy birth, but just as the calf was halfway out her overkeen mothering instinct kicked in and she got up, the calf fell out and was lying with his head underneath his body. If I wasn't there at the time I would have found the heifer with a still born calf and she would have been on the short list and valueble genetics probably lost for my herd. In this instance BW and CE would have played no role, but management did.

If I didn't check at all today and found the dead calf tomorrow I probably would have thought that the heifer had no mothering instinct and didn't attend to her calf, which could not have been further from the truth.

And believe me I wasn't in the mood to cut my Sunday afternoon nap short, but am sure glad I did.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I was given the following advice a few years ago by a real old timer:

"always try to see every calf being born on your farm"

Although this isn't always possible and maybe it can be edited to be "always try to see every first calf heifer giving birth on your farm" it still is very sound advice.

I had a first calf heifer due on 29/9, but she didn't calf till today (bull calf of course). It was an easy birth, but just as the calf was halfway out her overkeen mothering instinct kicked in and she got up, the calf fell out and was lying with his head underneath his body. If I wasn't there at the time I would have found the heifer with a still born calf and she would have been on the short list and valueble genetics probably lost for my herd. In this instance BW and CE would have played no role, but management did.

If I didn't check at all today and found the dead calf tomorrow I probably would have thought that the heifer had no mothering instinct and didn't attend to her calf, which could not have been further from the truth.

And believe me I wasn't in the mood to cut my Sunday afternoon nap short, but am sure glad I did.

That's nice if you can. You saved a calf and 500 bucks.
I still view it as the cows job not mine to insure a live delivery.
There are cows that better mothering instinct's than other's.

 

[KMacGinley]

Or she might have nosed it over all by herself. There was a thread on here a while back about checking cows all the time during calving, and if you are using reasonable calving ease bulls they can pretty much fend for themselves. I think a lot of calves get pulled that there was really no need to pull. On the other hand, once in a while you do need to be there. Maybe it comes down to common sense. Heifers need to be checked on often, Cows not so much. Maybe use a calving easer for heifers and something a little bigger for cows.
These guys blowing smoke about 100 lb bw bulls being just fine are kidding themselves, but no one else. Dead big calves are not worth much, and while a small calf may get hung up in a drastic malpresentation They cause much less trouble overall than those bigger calves. I used to calve in January and Febuary, what a nightmare, so I moved my season to Mid March to Mid May, so much nicer, haven't used my warming box in two years. Common sense.

 

[dun]

I used to calve in January and Febuary, what a nightmare, so I moved my season to Mid March to Mid May, so much nicer, haven't used my warming box in two years. Common sense.

As has been discussedbefore numerous times, selecting of a calving season has too many facets to be a one size fits all. I don;t know about no, but 20 years ago they used to calf in jan andfeb in montana because the ground was frozen and they had fewer sick calves. It was frigid cold, but later they had mud to contend with that contribuated to pneumonia problems. Other people have planting or harvesting seasons that preclude calving at a pecific time. Others don;t want to feed hay so they wait until the grass is usually almost into the spring flush. It all goes back to management, environemnt and marketing.

dun

 

[Caustic Burno]

Or she might have nosed it over all by herself. There was a thread on here a while back about checking cows all the time during calving, and if you are using reasonable calving ease bulls they can pretty much fend for themselves. I think a lot of calves get pulled that there was really no need to pull. On the other hand, once in a while you do need to be there. Maybe it comes down to common sense. Heifers need to be checked on often, Cows not so much. Maybe use a calving easer for heifers and something a little bigger for cows.
These guys blowing smoke about 100 lb bw bulls being just fine are kidding themselves, but no one else. Dead big calves are not worth much, and while a small calf may get hung up in a drastic malpresentation They cause much less trouble overall than those bigger calves. I used to calve in January and Febuary, what a nightmare, so I moved my season to Mid March to Mid May, so much nicer, haven't used my warming box in two years. Common sense.

If I have to help a heifer she is on a short list (normal presentation). It is to easy to cull a problem or a potential problem for something willing to work.

 

[msscamp]

I think a lot of calves get pulled that there was really no need to pull. On the other hand, once in a while you do need to be there. Maybe it comes down to common sense.

I think you're right - on all counts.

Heifers need to be checked on often, Cows not so much.

That is the way we do it, too.

These guys blowing smoke about 100 lb bw bulls being just fine are kidding themselves, but no one else. Dead big calves are not worth much, and while a small calf may get hung up in a drastic malpresentation They cause much less trouble overall than those bigger calves.

Again, I would have to agree.

I used to calve in January and Febuary, what a nightmare, so I moved my season to Mid March to Mid May, so much nicer, haven't used my warming box in two years. Common sense.

We've never calved in January, but we used to calve in mid-February - did it for a lot of years on the ranch with no problems except the occasional blizzard. Sold the ranch, moved to the current place, and had the calving season from hell very soon thereafter! Moved calving season up to mid-March and had no more problems. Heifers are checked, cows calve in the pasture (such as it is) and life is good! Common sense which, in our case, includes adapting to ones surroundings.

 

[Beefy]

you just never can tell. ive watched calves land on their head and flop around and flop around until they twist themselves over and are able to sit up. i have found FEW dead ones in this position, comparatively. normally if the calf cant wiggle itself into a position to twitch itself upright the mother will enable it by licking and nudging. the calf before last that was born was dropped on his head and i must have watched him for 15 minutes with his legs up in the air and no head visible--i had somewhere to be so i flipped him on over although i dont like to intervene if i can help it. a lot of times you do more harm than good trying to do the "right" thing or either get hurt. my calf more than likely would have flipped over eventually but i didnt want to take any chances. having said this i've flipped a many over in my day.

 

[randiliana]

you just never can tell. ive watched calves land on their head and flop around and flop around until they twist themselves over and are able to sit up. i have found FEW dead ones in this position, comparatively. normally if the calf cant wiggle itself into a position to twitch itself upright the mother will enable it by licking and nudging. the calf before last that was born was dropped on his head and i must have watched him for 15 minutes with his legs up in the air and no head visible--i had somewhere to be so i flipped him on over although i dont like to intervene if i can help it. a lot of times you do more harm than good trying to do the "right" thing or either get hurt. my calf more than likely would have flipped over eventually but i didnt want to take any chances. having said this i've flipped a many over in my day.

To me that seems like the theory that a calf can last 2-3 min with the sack over its nose. What I want to know is who it was that watched the calf to see just how long it took?? Since we are caring for them I think it is our duty to see to it that every one has a chance. If I see a calf in trouble (whether mama should be able to help or not) I am going to give it a hand, with an eye on mama of course ;-)

 

[KNERSIE]

randiliana,

I agree completely!

 

[TSR]

Or she might have nosed it over all by herself. There was a thread on here a while back about checking cows all the time during calving, and if you are using reasonable calving ease bulls they can pretty much fend for themselves. I think a lot of calves get pulled that there was really no need to pull. On the other hand, once in a while you do need to be there. Maybe it comes down to common sense. Heifers need to be checked on often, Cows not so much. Maybe use a calving easer for heifers and something a little bigger for cows.
These guys blowing smoke about 100 lb bw bulls being just fine are kidding themselves, but no one else. Dead big calves are not worth much, and while a small calf may get hung up in a drastic malpresentation They cause much less trouble overall than those bigger calves. I used to calve in January and Febuary, what a nightmare, so I moved my season to Mid March to Mid May, so much nicer, haven't used my warming box in two years. Common sense.

I would agree that a lot of calves get pulled that didn't need to get pulled in the first place. Also I don't want any 100lb calves either my last 2 were pulled from heifers and died.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

These guys blowing smoke about 100 lb bw bulls being just fine are kidding themselves, but no one else.

Didn't this just get wrung out in another thread? Tell me, do you think those of us that successfully calve out 100 lb calves year after year after year are lying? Why would I lie? Are you one of my customers? Or is it just that your own cattle can't successfully deliver 100 lb calves, so therefore no-one else's can either?

To get back to the topic at hand, its probably good advice, but I rarely see my calves being born. My rangy old girls seem to wait until my back is turned and headed back to the house before they drop. Many of my calves are an hour or two old, which is just fine by me. If a cow can't calve unassisted around here, she doesn't need to be here.

Rod

 

[Caustic Burno]

These guys blowing smoke about 100 lb bw bulls being just fine are kidding themselves, but no one else.

Didn't this just get wrung out in another thread? Tell me, do you think those of us that successfully calve out 100 lb calves year after year after year are lying? Why would I lie? Are you one of my customers? Or is it just that your own cattle can't successfully deliver 100 lb calves, so therefore no-one else's can either?

To get back to the topic at hand, its probably good advice, but I rarely see my calves being born. My rangy old girls seem to wait until my back is turned and headed back to the house before they drop. Many of my calves are an hour or two old, which is just fine by me. If a cow can't calve unassisted around here, she doesn't need to be here.

Rod

One hundred pound calves are bad advice without a qualifying statement , this board consist of people all over the country. Trying to tell people that is norm or good management is not right. It might be for you but one shoe doesn't fit all. Your cattle would fall apart here as well as mine there. Cattle from northern enviroments run much heavier than in southern operating enviroments.
Because your large frame cattle can normally handle a calf that large spells major trouble for some guy in Al.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

One hundred pound calves are bad advice without a qualifying statement , this board consist of people all over the country. Trying to tell people that is norm or good management is not right.

But so is telling people that 100 lb calves are 'blowing smoke' without proper qualification. If someone raised 60 or 70lb calves in the North (and I'm talking about Northern US too), they'd lose more to frostbite than they ever would lose 100 lb calves to birthing problems. Unless of course they babysat the critters all night, and quite frankly, I'd rather be in a nice warm house at -30, knowing full well that even if an animal was dropped a couple hours ago, its still going to be just fine.

Rod

 

[Caustic Burno]

One hundred pound calves are bad advice without a qualifying statement , this board consist of people all over the country. Trying to tell people that is norm or good management is not right.

But so is telling people that 100 lb calves are 'blowing smoke' without proper qualification. If someone raised 60 or 70lb calves in the North (and I'm talking about Northern US too), they'd lose more to frostbite than they ever would lose 100 lb calves to birthing problems. Unless of course they babysat the critters all night, and quite frankly, I'd rather be in a nice warm house at -30, knowing full well that even if an animal was dropped a couple hours ago, its still going to be just fine.

Rod

Are you saying all the Angus calves born up north weigh a 100 pounds?

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Are you saying all the Angus calves born up north weigh a 100 pounds?

Of course not, at least no more than you're saying that all calves born in south weigh 60lbs. All I'm saying is that recommending a 60lb birthweight in the north is just as bad as recommending a 100 lb birthweight in your area. I'm also saying that having 100 lb calves be the norm is not 'blowing smoke'.

Rod

 

[Caustic Burno]

Are you saying all the Angus calves born up north weigh a 100 pounds?

Of course not, at least no more than you're saying that all calves born in south weigh 60lbs. All I'm saying is that recommending a 60lb birthweight in the north is just as bad as recommending a 100 lb birthweight in your area. I'm also saying that having 100 lb calves be the norm is not 'blowing smoke'.

Rod

I have never ran cattle in a harsh cold enviroment, tell me why a good healthy 75 pound calf has it so much rougher. I really don't understand this never operating in sub zero weather.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

I have never ran cattle in a harsh cold enviroment, tell me why a good healthy 75 pound calf has it so much rougher. I really don't understand this never operating in sub zero weather.

A hundred pound calf has a little more flesh on him, not as gant as a 60 or 70 lb calf. At -30, even a little extra flesh will help an incredible amount, especially if you have a mother who really goes after the calf. As I mentioned in the other thread, a 70 lb calf may only last an hour or two at -30. A 100 lb calf may last another hour, or even hour and a half if you get lucky.

I think I can hear you wondering why you simply wouldn't check more often with smaller calves, but what if you're having to pull a calf, or have to run into the vet and another cow drops just after you leave? I don't have many problems around here, so its pretty much a non-issue, but its nice to know that I do have that extra hour should something happen.

Rod

 

[Caustic Burno]

I have never ran cattle in a harsh cold enviroment, tell me why a good healthy 75 pound calf has it so much rougher. I really don't understand this never operating in sub zero weather.

A hundred pound calf has a little more flesh on him, not as gant as a 60 or 70 lb calf. At -30, even a little extra flesh will help an incredible amount, especially if you have a mother who really goes after the calf. As I mentioned in the other thread, a 70 lb calf may only last an hour or two at -30. A 100 lb calf may last another hour, or even hour and a half if you get lucky.

I think I can hear you wondering why you simply wouldn't check more often with smaller calves, but what if you're having to pull a calf, or have to run into the vet and another cow drops just after you leave? I don't have many problems around here, so its pretty much a non-issue, but its nice to know that I do have that extra hour should something happen.

Rod

No my question is why wouldn't you wait until warmer weather to calf.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

No my question is why wouldn't you wait until warmer weather to calf.

Our warmer weather brings insects and rain. Often lots of rain for days at a time. I'd rather calve in -40 than prowl the pens on pneumonia patrol in May. May nightime rains are cold, miserable suckers that get right down to your bones. Those calves born in Feb and March simply shake the rain off and go back to bucking and playing.

March is a good time to start calving, but its not unheard of to have -30 and -40 in March. By mid-April, the snows are starting to go and pens are getting sloppy. May is when I help the old man with his grain operation. June is haying time. And I won't remotely think about calving later than June.

Rod

 

[Caustic Burno]

No my question is why wouldn't you wait until warmer weather to calf.

Our warmer weather brings insects and rain. Often lots of rain for days at a time. I'd rather calve in -40 than prowl the pens on pneumonia patrol in May. May nightime rains are cold, miserable suckers that get right down to your bones. Those calves born in Feb and March simply shake the rain off and go back to bucking and playing.

March is a good time to start calving, but its not unheard of to have -30 and -40 in March. By mid-April, the snows are starting to go and pens are getting sloppy. May is when I help the old man with his grain operation. June is haying time. And I won't remotely think about calving later than June.

Rod

You just described our winter 35 to 40 degrees and rain all the time when it is not raining it's drizzle. We go through some hay as the cows never dry out takes a lot to stay warm. I have always thought it be easier on them if it was below freezing at least they could dry out.
Waiting for the dew to lift now going to bale the last field and put the hay equipment up till next year.