Genetic planning

[hornedfrogbbq]

We ranch in north central Texas.

We have a pure bred black angus commercial herd.

We have been heavily using Connealy genetics and 10x sons.

For the first time, we are following our steers through the feedlot and will get full carcass info to help us plan.

I am assuming we'll be marbling ok and will score well both in the feedyard and on the rail. We'll soon see.

We have a goal to retain ownership all the way through to sell on a quality grid.

We are concentrating on SAV genetics for the next 3 years to help us in our rate of gain and to try and increase our wean weights. We have to maintain a moderate frame. Goal is 600lb calves at 7 months of wean.

Looking out 3 years, since SAV cattle aren't known for their marbling traits, I might come back with more marbling bulls and semen. GAR clearly focuses on that but many don't like their "look." I know Bub's rings alot of bells on our multi-trait EPD selection process. VAR seems to focus heavily on 10x genetics to get their carcass quality...as does 44 farms (although both clearly use other sires as well. We joke that the 44 farm's sale is like shopping at Target...something for everyone!)

Any suggestions from producers that are carrying their cattle through the system? We aren't driving for prime and are not chasing that but do want to try and get CAB premiums and grade out choice or higher.

Who do you all use when you are tuning up your herd to score well in the feedlot and have quality premiums later on?

 

[Hogtiming]

The sav calves with the proper feed will grade a lot better than you should expect. I would use baldridge lines if I wanted to add marbling definitely before I went to using Gar.

 

[LCBulls]

I'd use Resource. He is a proven cowmaker and looks like he grades really good. Obviously won't improve the Marbling on Paper though.
I think he should cross well on those lines.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

IDK - I raise PB Simmental, and I didn't have any trouble with my black steers qualifying for CAB. They were fed out on a feedlot at Cornell Univ. Averaged 13 months at 1300#. How hard can it be? LOL

 

[sim.-ang.king]

If I was in your shoes and retaining ownership, I would never feed a straight bred steer.
Split up your herd, best cows get straight bred for replacement, lower 2/3rds gets crossed to improve ADG, F/G, and increased vigor.
If you already have good carcass traits, and a good group of cows, I would use Simmental or some Continental to give you better over all muscling, and with simmy you wouldn't be sacrificing carcass, and you could breed for moderate frame. (Most simmy's are smaller framed than the mainline angus.)

 

[YoungAngusCattle]

I'd use Resource. He is a proven cowmaker and looks like he grades really good. Obviously won't improve the Marbling on Paper though.
I think he should cross well on those lines.

How do you know which angus lines cross well? Serious question I am trying to get myself established in the seedstock world.

 

[LCBulls]

I'd use Resource. He is a proven cowmaker and looks like he grades really good. Obviously won't improve the Marbling on Paper though.
I think he should cross well on those lines.

How do you know which angus lines cross well? Serious question I am trying to get myself established in the seedstock world.

To be honest, you don't really know what will work good together. As Breeders, we are always trying to improve our cattle. There are strengths and weaknesses to each Sire that we use.
We have used Ten X progeny and they do many things well, but they definitely have some negatives, especially feet, structure and maternally.
Resource is a bull that will fix a lot of those issues. He Sires heavy muscled, moderate framed, easy fleshing calves with good feet.
His negatives are that he is not a Low Birthweight Calving Ease Sire and some think that they are not big enough frame size.
What I like about him, is that they grow to a year as good as any bull out there and then shut it down. They don't continue to grow to be enormously huge like other Growth bulls. His daughters are fantastic and by reading the bottom of that picture I sent, his calves grade near the top for Carcass traits.

 

[gizmom]

Ok my two cents Connealy isn't a genetic line it's a farm. What genetic line do you like at Connealy? What are the strengths and weaknesses of the line.

Gizmom

 

[LCBulls]

Ok my two cents Connealy isn't a genetic line it's a farm. What genetic line do you like at Connealy? What are the strengths and weaknesses of the line.

Gizmom

Yeah, Connealy is one of the farms that probably has the most diversity. They use many of the currently popular AI Sires each year. I would think that they have really good cows. I also think that they are probably really different from each other. I could be wrong though. Never been to their sale.

 

[Ebenezer]

Just curious on some of these quests for bulls to do X, Y and Z. Have you used the AAA Sire Search and put in your criteria to see a sort to give you an unbiased opinion of what is available in the breed? Would be a lot better than getting statements on what few bulls have been used by posters from my opinion.

 

[LCBulls]

Just curious on some of these quests for bulls to do X, Y and Z. Have you used the AAA Sire Search and put in your criteria to see a sort to give you an unbiased opinion of what is available in the breed? Would be a lot better than getting statements on what few bulls have been used by posters from my opinion.

Your right that it isn't a bad idea to use an EPD sort.
Just remind yourself that those EPDs your looking at is a picture in time and that many of those bulls will be way different than what it shows currently.
I also believe that it's best to use your eyes and ears from people who have experience in those bulls that you just sorted.

 

[Ebenezer]

Just curious on some of these quests for bulls to do X, Y and Z. Have you used the AAA Sire Search and put in your criteria to see a sort to give you an unbiased opinion of what is available in the breed? Would be a lot better than getting statements on what few bulls have been used by posters from my opinion.

Your right that it isn't a bad idea to use an EPD sort.
Just remind yourself that those EPDs your looking at is a picture in time and that many of those bulls will be way different than what it shows currently.
I also believe that it's best to use your eyes and ears from people who have experience in those bulls that you just sorted.

Same on opinions. Use higher accuracy on the sort if you want to get closer.

 

[CreekAngus]

It appears you are looking for terminal sires and the biggest complaint about the Angus breed has been the push towards the terminal numbers. I always think of SAV as being a maternal breeder, if I was going terminal, everything in Jindra's semen tank would be on my list, Acclaim, Guinness, Megahit, 3rd Dimension.....etc.

 

[Bcompton53]

It appears you are looking for terminal sires and the biggest complaint about the Angus breed has been the push towards the terminal numbers. I always think of SAV as being a maternal breeder, if I was going terminal, everything in Jindra's semen tank would be on my list, Acclaim, Guinness, Megahit, 3rd Dimension.....etc.

I thought people always considered SAV to grow big giant cows. some folks want that, but to me, that sounds more terminal than maternal.

 

[LCBulls]

It appears you are looking for terminal sires and the biggest complaint about the Angus breed has been the push towards the terminal numbers. I always think of SAV as being a maternal breeder, if I was going terminal, everything in Jindra's semen tank would be on my list, Acclaim, Guinness, Megahit, 3rd Dimension.....etc.

I thought people always considered SAV to grow big giant cows. some folks want that, but to me, that sounds more terminal than maternal.

That's funny, I'm sure that they have some bigger cows. But if you look at the Sires they've been using, I'd say that they are moderating them while still keeping the capacity and dimension. They are definitely not near as big frame wise as those just listed

Rito 707
*Resource*
Renown
*Charlo*
EXT

* these bulls are very moderate and the most used by them recently

 

[Bcompton53]

It appears you are looking for terminal sires and the biggest complaint about the Angus breed has been the push towards the terminal numbers. I always think of SAV as being a maternal breeder, if I was going terminal, everything in Jindra's semen tank would be on my list, Acclaim, Guinness, Megahit, 3rd Dimension.....etc.

I thought people always considered SAV to grow big giant cows. some folks want that, but to me, that sounds more terminal than maternal.

That's funny, I'm sure that they have some bigger cows. But if you look at the Sires they've been using, I'd say that they are moderating them while still keeping the capacity and dimension. They are definitely not near as big frame wise as those just listed

Rito 707
*Resource*
Renown
*Charlo*
EXT

* these bulls are very moderate and the most used by them recently

yeah, and I wasn't arguing. I'm always looking for opinions of others.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

Ok my two cents Connealy isn't a genetic line it's a farm. What genetic line do you like at Connealy? What are the strengths and weaknesses of the line.

Gizmom

We are heavily leaned towards Consensus and his sons and grandsons.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

Just curious on some of these quests for bulls to do X, Y and Z. Have you used the AAA Sire Search and put in your criteria to see a sort to give you an unbiased opinion of what is available in the breed? Would be a lot better than getting statements on what few bulls have been used by posters from my opinion.

Yep. Extensively. I am always curious of the "real world" experiences than just the numbers. That being said, we have a multi-trait screening system that we use with different "weightings" for different combinations. We've been very happy with it so far.

 

[Jake]

It appears you are looking for terminal sires and the biggest complaint about the Angus breed has been the push towards the terminal numbers. I always think of SAV as being a maternal breeder, if I was going terminal, everything in Jindra's semen tank would be on my list, Acclaim, Guinness, Megahit, 3rd Dimension.....etc.

I thought people always considered SAV to grow big giant cows. some folks want that, but to me, that sounds more terminal than maternal.

The only people I've heard talk about how huge SAV cows must be are people that haven't used the genetics. You can find SAV bulls that will add frame but our experience is they are moderate for the most part.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

It appears you are looking for terminal sires and the biggest complaint about the Angus breed has been the push towards the terminal numbers. I always think of SAV as being a maternal breeder, if I was going terminal, everything in Jindra's semen tank would be on my list, Acclaim, Guinness, Megahit, 3rd Dimension.....etc.

I thought people always considered SAV to grow big giant cows. some folks want that, but to me, that sounds more terminal than maternal.

The only people I've heard talk about how huge SAV cows must be are people that haven't used the genetics. You can find SAV bulls that will add frame but our experience is they are moderate for the most part.

"Big" is a relative term.
You can have "big" cows that weigh 1400 pounds, or you can have "big" cows that weigh 1800 pounds. Just depends which scale you are using.
SAV may have "moderate" framed cows, but they have "big" cows that weigh a lot, and weight is a bigger factor in feed consumption.
It's just that all these years we've been taught tall frame means "big cow".

Old habits die hard.