Fuel prices

[Alberta farmer]

mobgrazer: I think you have got a pretty good plan. I suspect oil prices will stay fairly low until summer and then probably rise...depending on the economy. Right now the world is awash in oil with tankers sitting off the coast full because all the storage capacity is taken.
Oil should have never gone up to $147/barrel. There was no shortage just speculators driving up the market. A lot of those speculators lost their shirts and won't be as likely to pile in again!
The sad part of low oil prices is it sends the wrong signal to the business. Exploration and developement stops, thus creating a real shortage somewhere down the road when the economy gets going again. I can see a real shortage in about two years with record breaking prices. Or maybe Obama will have us all driving windmills or something?

 

[iowahawkeyes]

Gas is 1.79 for ethanol, 1.89 for unleaded
Diesel is 2.52, one town away (7 miles) is 2.29, go figure
Starting to creep up.

 

[mobgrazer]

Well when gas was 3.90 I read a newspaper article saying there was over 5 billion gallons of gas sitting on the Mississippi river with no where to dump it. The storage tanks around us were only half full.

If I could get a 2000 gallon tank or even larger I would top it off today with fuel. Even if I paid $3.00 a gallon for on road fuel I would still top it off. I'm not planning on using a gas station till it hits $3.50 for fuel, I might weight even longer but I don't know.

It's going to be 2 to 3 years till we see any decent change for the good out of the economy. The way I read this stuff one thing Obama is planning on is the widening of highways to put work in people's hands. We will soon find out if it's a step in the right direction.

We are set up to net meter. We have 3 meters on the farm and 2 grid tie wind systems. I will not see a pay off on the system till 2015 and were installed 2005. Our turbines can put out 2 times what were allowed to back feed. We have had days we didn't know the power was out till we went to use something 220. Were looking into a setup for our shop to be installed July 2009 but were pushing the power company to let us sell more KWH off of it because it's a 400 amp meter not a 200 amp. But we will see what happens.

Form Thursday on the way to take the kids to school till when I picked them up Friday after noon gas has gone up $.14. I know a Texaco that says they still have a full tank of high test that they paid 3.90 a gallon for sitting there. There are few people that buy better grades until the price goes up around us. For some reason I get the high test when it's cheap and cheap stuff when it's high.

I'm anti wind mill when it comes to the larger units. There are over 300 of them that have been installed that have used more power to keep the blades turning then they have produced. Just because the blades are spinning dose not mean there making us power part of the time there using our power.

 

[KenB]

Well when gas was 3.90 I read a newspaper article saying there was over 5 billion gallons of gas sitting on the Mississippi river with no where to dump it. The storage tanks around us were only half full.

If I could get a 2000 gallon tank or even larger I would top it off today with fuel. Even if I paid $3.00 a gallon for on road fuel I would still top it off. I'm not planning on using a gas station till it hits $3.50 for fuel, I might weight even longer but I don't know.

It's going to be 2 to 3 years till we see any decent change for the good out of the economy. The way I read this stuff one thing Obama is planning on is the widening of highways to put work in people's hands. We will soon find out if it's a step in the right direction.

We are set up to net meter. We have 3 meters on the farm and 2 grid tie wind systems. I will not see a pay off on the system till 2015 and were installed 2005. Our turbines can put out 2 times what were allowed to back feed. We have had days we didn't know the power was out till we went to use something 220. Were looking into a setup for our shop to be installed July 2009 but were pushing the power company to let us sell more KWH off of it because it's a 400 amp meter not a 200 amp. But we will see what happens.

Form Thursday on the way to take the kids to school till when I picked them up Friday after noon gas has gone up $.14. I know a Texaco that says they still have a full tank of high test that they paid 3.90 a gallon for sitting there. There are few people that buy better grades until the price goes up around us. For some reason I get the high test when it's cheap and cheap stuff when it's high.

I'm anti wind mill when it comes to the larger units. There are over 300 of them that have been installed that have used more power to keep the blades turning then they have produced. Just because the blades are spinning dose not mean there making us power part of the time there using our power

.

Why would they be using power?????????

 

[mobgrazer]

Why would they be using power?????????

The large turbines have to keep moving when the wind is to low to keep it spinning. Other wise it would take a huge long gust to get them spinning.

It all comes down to barring friction and the "flux core" off the magnets and wire coil... I don't under stand it all as well as other things but I get most of it.

Both of my turbines need about 20 mph to get spinning. At the point they start making useable power is 14 mph. If the wind drops below 7 mph and the momentum is not there to keep them spinning then they just sit there till I get a 20 mph guest of wind.

The 2 turbines are 8' blade tip to tip. The turbines that they want to feed power to the US with are 30 to 50 feet blade tip to tip. I don't have the info in front of me on some of the big units but I'm thinking it's a 50 mph for 180 sec to get it spinning but need 13 to keep it spinning. I'm thinking it's 20 mph to start making power.

 

[KenB]

Why would they be using power?????????

The large turbines have to keep moving when the wind is to low to keep it spinning. Other wise it would take a huge long gust to get them spinning.

It all comes down to barring friction and the "flux core" off the magnets and wire coil... I don't under stand it all as well as other things but I get most of it.

Both of my turbines need about 20 mph to get spinning. At the point they start making useable power is 14 mph. If the wind drops below 7 mph and the momentum is not there to keep them spinning then they just sit there till I get a 20 mph guest of wind.

The 2 turbines are 8' blade tip to tip. The turbines that they want to feed power to the US with are 30 to 50 feet blade tip to tip. I don't have the info in front of me on some of the big units but I'm thinking it's a 50 mph for 180 sec to get it spinning but need 13 to keep it spinning. I'm thinking it's 20 mph to start making power.

Thanks for the explanation. I wasn't thinking about that.

 

[john250]

Why would they be using power?????????

The large turbines have to keep moving when the wind is to low to keep it spinning. Other wise it would take a huge long gust to get them spinning.

Thanks for the explanation. I wasn't thinking about that.

Could not an instrument be added to measure the wind, programmed to give a short shot of "start up" when wind is adequate to generate power?

 

[1982vett]

How about just picking a better location for the windmill, such as one that has adequate winds for the technology.

Another thing I often wondered, why only two blades? I don't recall ever hearing this discussed or explained or maybe I wasn't listeneing at the proper time.

 

[iowahawkeyes]

How about just picking a better location for the windmill, such as one that has adequate winds for the technology.

Another thing I often wondered, why only two blades? I don't recall ever hearing this discussed or explained or maybe I wasn't listeneing at the proper time.

The windmills up here have 3 blades.

 

[1982vett]

Now that you mention it, I can remember seeing pictures of the 3 blade fans. Still seems more blades would make a better wind catcher.

 

[dun]

In a couple of places in CA they have windfarms with 2 blade, 3 blade and the type that looks like a wisk (one sided egg beater)

 

[mobgrazer]

Could not an instrument be added to measure the wind, programmed to give a short shot of "start up" when wind is adequate to generate power?

I'm sure they could. But how many generations of something dose it take to get it right?

How about just picking a better location for the windmill, such as one that has adequate winds for the technology.

Another thing I often wondered, why only two blades? I don't recall ever hearing this discussed or explained or maybe I wasn't listeneing at the proper time.

There are some farms that needed better testing before they were installed. Some farms were great till the conditions around them changed to and cut off the wind flow. I have one that's sitting at 80' high and if I put my truck in the wrong spot it dose not get any wind from that direction and the truck is 150' away.

The number of blades has to do with the types of winds and the force put onto the poll. Something I don't understand all the way.

Soon the vertical turbines will be more popular and look better to home use and larger stores.


We got our first system when we were looking at getting a whole house generator. We were looking at a 100A 220 unit auto starts with the whole 9 yards. It would never pay for it self because it is a convince to us not a true need. We could of use a potable unit power the freezers and stuff 4 hours a day when needed.

Our setups to more or less run a house. The ac compressor, oven, and stuff like that dose not run off the wind system. It takes 4 cycles to switch form the power polls to the batter system when the power goes out. As long as nothing breaks we can almost go forever with the power coming back on.