First Steer - Need Advice!

[andrea]

I will be getting my first steer calf soon. My neighbor is giving us one in exchange for hay he cut off our property. I know this is small potatoes compared to what a lot of you do, but it's a beginning for us! I'm excited!

What do I look for in the calf, conformationally? I'm not sure how old he is or anything, all I know is that he is red. We're going to see him today. I can reject him and get meat instead if we don't like him.

What questions should I ask about him?

What supplements does he need? More than just a mineral salt block? We feed timothy hay but I may get some alfalfa too, and feed some grain. I'll have to go check out the feeding/nutrition area, but just wondered what to buy to get started.

Is it worthwhile to consider buying another calf to come home with him? Or will he be fine with just my horses for company?

Any other essential advice for a total beginner would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Alan]

I'm no great expert but, I like have at least two, cattle are herd animals. I wouldn't worry too much about conformation as long as he looks like he supports his weight pretty well (no obvious, disformities) I assuming he'll be a butcher steer. The fact that he is a steer is why I wouldn't worry about comformation. When you go view him make sure he is about the same size as the other calves born about the same time.

I would let the breeder wean him, the calf will have a fair amount of stress during weaning. Find out what shots he has had, and if he has been wormed. If not give him the shots or ask the breeder to do it. He should be wormed every 6 months with a pour on wormer (easiest for you).

Cattle need shelter, mineral block, a good fence (I like electric, they really learn to respect that little wire) Cows will eat just about any hay as long as it not moldy, but you'll find they will waste a lot if you feed it on the ground, so if you have something to feed then out of it will save you some money.

They need a water source, since I know Idaho pretty well watch the ice, You need to break it up 2 or 3 times a day.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

Good luck,
Alan

 

[andrea]

Alan,

Yes, he'll be a butcher steer.

And yep, we do have to break ice a lot if we don't have tank heaters in.

I'll ask about shots and such. I don't know if the calf is already weaned or not, so I better find out.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[dun]

Provide a compnaion for him. Cattle being herd animals do much better with company. Doesn;t need to be a calf, just about any animal that will be with him all the time.

dun

 

[andrea]

I'm pretty sure we're going to try to get another calf to come home with him, and raise them up together.

How bad would it be if I bought a calf from a different herd? It seems to me it would be likely they might infect each other with something? Or is it okay to mix?

 

[msscamp]

How bad would it be if I bought a calf from a different herd? It seems to me it would be likely they might infect each other with something? Or is it okay to mix?

Provided they are both healthy and have been on a good health program (vaccinations, regular de-wormings, etc) it should be fine. I would also trade in the mineral block for a good loose mineral to insure your calves are receiving the proper amount. Because of their formulation, blocks tend to require too much licking to get enough mineral and some of them only provide trace mineral.

 

[Jogeephus]

Don't over pamper him. I tried so hard to do eveything perfect with my first calf I ended up giving him bloat because I kept changing his feed to much. This probably wouldn't happen to you - by the questions you've asked - it sounds like you got more sence than I do. ;-)

Good Luck and above all - Have Fun!

 

[andrea]

I have been known to agonize over and dink with my horse's feed program. Ask my husband, he thinks I'm crazy. So I will do my research and pick a feed plan and stick to it so I don't kill the poor critters.

I already bought a salt block, but will get loose salt also, and give them both, so I'm not totally wasting the block. There were a lot of choices on the salt blocks, and I know we're selenium deficient, so I bought a 90% selenium block. They also had a 30% selenium block and I didn't know for sure why you'd get one over the other. They also had plain, iodized, and trace mineral blocks, and one or two other kinds. Too many choices! What's the blue block for?

Now, I know with my sheep it's better to give them a loose mineral than the loose salt/mineral mix. Is there a loose mineral mix I can offer next to plain salt that will be better for the calves? Even my horses loved the loose mineral I got from the sheep, even though it's not formulated for them. I know it's not right for cattle but wondered if there's something comparable for them. Do cattle and horses have the same vitamin/mineral requirements?

I think that's enough questions for now... I'm hoping to bring home the calves tomorrow but some weird stuff has come up so it may have to wait.

 

[msscamp]

I have been known to agonize over and dink with my horse's feed program. Ask my husband, he thinks I'm crazy. So I will do my research and pick a feed plan and stick to it so I don't kill the poor critters.

I already bought a salt block, but will get loose salt also, and give them both, so I'm not totally wasting the block. There were a lot of choices on the salt blocks, and I know we're selenium deficient, so I bought a 90% selenium block. They also had a 30% selenium block and I didn't know for sure why you'd get one over the other. They also had plain, iodized, and trace mineral blocks, and one or two other kinds. Too many choices! What's the blue block for?

Now, I know with my sheep it's better to give them a loose mineral than the loose salt/mineral mix. Is there a loose mineral mix I can offer next to plain salt that will be better for the calves? Even my horses loved the loose mineral I got from the sheep, even though it's not formulated for them. I know it's not right for cattle but wondered if there's something comparable for them. Do cattle and horses have the same vitamin/mineral requirements?

I think that's enough questions for now... I'm hoping to bring home the calves tomorrow but some weird stuff has come up so it may have to wait.

Andrea, you're killing me, you're just killing me! :lol: :lol: :lol: Ok, deep breath and go talk to your county extension agent, then call your vet and talk to him/her about your questions and concerns. Both of them are in a much better position to answer your questions than we are since we don't even know what area of the country you live in. It's ok to just put out a salt block, because salt is generally salt (although I could be wrong on that) - it's the minerals that are a little more dicey. Cattle require a certain amount of mineral and they stand a good chance of not getting them from a mineral block because of the way the block is formulated. That is why loose mineral is better. I would also advise you to pick a feed plan and stick with it - another reason to talk to to your local county extension office and vet - because abruptly changing diets can cause some fairly serious to majorly serious problems with any animal, and you don't need that. You really need to talk to your vet about the selenium deficient problem - I don't honestly know if a selenium rich mineral will solve that problem or if you're going to have to vaccinate with BoSe to prevent White Muscle disease in your calves, but you need to find out because White Muscle disease can kill your calves pretty quickly. I wish you the best with your cattle, and enjoy!

 

[Susie David]

Can't add anything except...how's your facilities and get two (or three) calves.
What part of Idaho are you located, up here we're also deficient in copper so need to have a mineral suppliment with all the trace that are lacking.
Just my two bits worth....DMc

 

[alabama]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I will be getting my first steer calf soon. My neighbor is giving us one in exchange for hay he cut off our property. I know this is small potatoes compared to what a lot of you do, but it's a beginning for us! I'm excited!

What do I look for in the calf, conformationally? I'm not sure how old he is or anything, all I know is that he is red. We're going to see him today. I can reject him and get meat instead if we don't like him.


I think your last statment is the best one. "Reject him and get the meat instead"

Unless you want to raise him for fun.

 

[andrea]

Okay, I'll reply to everyone at once.

I'll talk to my vet about the mineral issue. I'm not sure if we're copper deficient. I'm in the southern part of North Idaho. Moscow is the nearest city.

I don't know what's considered and abrupt feed change. Normally when I change something with the horses I add maybe a half cup of the new grain or feed a day. I don't think that's abrupt at all but....??? I'll find out from my vet or from another friend who raises cattle a little more scientifically than my neighbor.

Facilities are okay. Just brought the steer calf home and he's in my mustang pen, which isn't very big (28'x28', 7' tall post and rail) but is the most sturdy structure I have. I want him to know he lives here now before I try putting him out in the electric fence. I also want to try to get him at least marginally tame and halter broke if possible to make handlign for us newbies easier. Have another good-sized pen fenced with non-climb and cattle panels thatI can put him in if the electric fails to hold him.

His buddy will be brought home this weekend. I really can't find time to do it before then. Buying a better quality calf to raise with him. Maybe two.

My last comment is triggered by Alabama's comment and other comments I've seen on other threads. I was wondering why does it seem like a lot of people here don't think it's a good idea to raise cattle? Seems like a lot of the advice I read says don't bother. Or in this case is it just because you thought the calf was poor quality? Or do you think I'm too ignorant? I'm working on that...

I am doing it for fun, and so I can know exactly where my beef came from, what went into it, and what kind of life and death it had. Bleeding heart type. I plan on doing this from here on out, and eventually having better facilities and a small herd. I do believe that it is possible to make a profit if you find a niche and market it right. Perhaps I am naive, but we shall see. I have a mentor who raises sheep very successfully, has a great head for business, and hope to do as well as she does with my cattle endeavor. It will take time and a lot of work and dedication though.

Sorry, babbling here...

Thanks for the advice!

Oh! Edited to add: I did plan on having a calf to raise! I didn't just say yes to an out of the blue offer. I had asked for a calf from him if he got enough hay off our place to make it a fair trade. Just wanted to clarify so you all don't think I made a spur of the moment decision.

And I really do plan on picking what to feed and sticking with it, even though I did ask about what's considered a sudden change. I am changing their feed when they come here, because I won't be feeding what the previous owners fed. I won't be constantly changing it though.

 

[msscamp]

I don't know what's considered and abrupt feed change.

An abrupt feed change is changing feed from one day to the next without weaning them off of what they are used to while adding new stuff in a gradual manner. It doesn't sound like you do this, and that is good!

Facilities are okay. Just brought the steer calf home and he's in my mustang pen, which isn't very big (28'x28', 7' tall post and rail) but is the most sturdy structure I have. I want him to know he lives here now before I try putting him out in the electric fence.

Just to be on the safe side, you might want to consider fence training him. A lot of times when an animal encounters an electric fence for the first time and gets bit, they tend to jump through the fence rather than away from it. Fence training is a fairly simple matter of setting up an electric fence inside the corral so they can't jump through it.

I also want to try to get him at least marginally tame and halter broke if possible to make handlign for us newbies easier. Have another good-sized pen fenced with non-climb and cattle panels thatI can put him in if the electric fails to hold him.

I would be careful of how tame I got this steer. Taming him down will remove the natural fear of humans, negate the respect that comes from that, and can get you hurt. It is not my intent to patronize, but with your statement of this being your first steer I don't know if you've been around cattle or not, and felt it was definitely worth mentioning.

His buddy will be brought home this weekend. I really can't find time to do it before then. Buying a better quality calf to raise with him. Maybe two.

That should be fine.

My last comment is triggered by Alabama's comment and other comments I've seen on other threads. I was wondering why does it seem like a lot of people here don't think it's a good idea to raise cattle? Seems like a lot of the advice I read says don't bother. Or in this case is it just because you thought the calf was poor quality? Or do you think I'm too ignorant? I'm working on that...

Speaking only for myself, a lot of times people jump into cattle ownership without doing their homework and knowing the basics, and the cattle suffer because of that. I don't like seeing animals suffer when it could have easily been prevented. As far as the poor quality, conformation has little (if anything) to do with how an animal will taste on your plate. I don't think you're ignorant, in fact I admire the fact that you're asking questions and trying to do right by your critters. I sincerely doubt that you will find any one who knows how to take care of cattle unless they have them or have had them at some point in their lives. Keep asking questions, doing your homework, talking to people, and taking care of your animals.



I am doing it for fun, and so I can know exactly where my beef came from, what went into it, and what kind of life and death it had. Bleeding heart type. I plan on doing this from here on out, and eventually having better facilities and a small herd. I do believe that it is possible to make a profit if you find a niche and market it right. Perhaps I am naive, but we shall see. I have a mentor who raises sheep very successfully, has a great head for business, and hope to do as well as she does with my cattle endeavor. It will take time and a lot of work and dedication though.

Sorry, babbling here...

I wish you the best of luck, and I also believe it's possible to turn a profit with cattle. Management is the key!

Thanks for the advice!

 

[andrea]

I would be careful of how tame I got this steer. Taming him down will remove the natural fear of humans, negate the respect that comes from that, and can get you hurt. It is not my intent to patronize, but with your statement of this being your first steer I don't know if you've been around cattle or not, and felt it was definitely worth mentioning.

So is there any happy medium? I know when I gentle a mustang there is a middle state where they will tolerate people but still have a fear, and so are... hmm, hard to put this into words... Handleable but easy to move. Also with the sheep I work with some are very hard to handle because they are totally wild, whereas the others who know the routine put up with it but still don't seek out human companionship. I don't yet know anything about how cattle think. It is one of the things I am excited about, seeing how they differ from what I'm used to. How do you handle a wild full grown steer? Is the only way to do it with chutes? I really hope no one rips into me for this question. I can find my answers elsewhere but I thought this would be a good place to learn too.

Speaking only for myself, a lot of times people jump into cattle ownership without doing their homework and knowing the basics, and the cattle suffer because of that. I don't like seeing animals suffer when it could have easily been prevented.

I hope I know enough to keep that from happening. I am gathering knowledge as fast as I can. Admittedly I need to get more on the ball, I've had a lot on my plate lately. I do have a few people to fall back on in case of emergency. My vet and the guy I'm buying the other calf from. He's a fountain of knowledge.

As far as the poor quality, conformation has little (if anything) to do with how an animal will taste on your plate.

So does breeding not have anything to do with the quality of the meat? And is conformation not related to good breeding? I really am showing my ignorance here. I know in horses a good horse is a good horse, but then you're not generally interested in how they will taste Back to the subject - how much does genetics affect taste? How much depends on management? I have someone (who may or may not know what she's talking about) telling me that if the breeding sucks the meat will be inedible. I would love to hear that that's not true.

I sincerely doubt that you will find any one who knows how to take care of cattle unless they have them or have had them at some point in their lives.

I am not one of those people yet, but someday will be.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[onthehoof]

andrea,

I too am somewhat in your shoes as well, I still have alot of learning to do; and questions I will be asking as I have only had a few cattle before. I can tell you however; that what msscamp said about being to tame is definately something I noticed - and think is correct. We purchased a Jersey heiffer about two months ago. She is bred with her first calf, due in April. We got her from an Amish auction. The herd was a successful milk producing herd, which we really had no interest in other than maybe making butter (lol - I am, I am I say - going to make butter!). She is very nerveous of people. It took me two weeks just to be able to touch her along the side of her face and neck. Now, I can touch her everywhere, including her udders (with a sharp eye on her back legs/feet for a kick) but only when she is busy eating. I don't have any intention on her being a pet, and want to maintain the fact that I am Alpha to her so don't want her real tame, but tame enough to milk or help her with her calf when it is born without her freaking out trying to run away.

We have another heiffer coming this weekend, a herfeord (sp?). I have eaten both dairy and beef cattle - I'm not particularly in the financial mode to be choosy on which one I eat. The dairy tastes just fine to me. My neighbor told me it would be stringy and terrible - boy was he wrong. It was tender and delicious! So as far as dairy vs. beef breed I really don't have a preference. I guess I would if I could afford to, but I can't so I don't.

I look at it this way - I feed and take care of them, I know they were well cared for while they were here, and when they are gone they feed me and my family and take care of us. And, like you said, I know what is in my freezer and whats not in my meat

 

[mdmdogs3]

So is there any happy medium? .......... Handleable but easy to move.

This statement is exactly what we want around here -
I want a cow/steer/bull that doesn't run to the other side of the pasture because I walk up
I want them to be interested in what I'm doing enough to hang around and see if I have range cubes or some other goodie -
makes them much easier to move from place to place.

 

[AngusLimoX]

I can find my answers elsewhere but I thought this would be a good place to learn too.

You are giving us such a great opportunity to teach you.It truly is us that should be grateful. :lol: Some good people have already gone to some effort to help you, don't get thin skinned on us.


Admittedly I need to get more on the ball,
You are doing a great job. If you have been watching in here there are folks who just go to a barn,buy calves, and come asking how to care for them!

So does breeding not have anything to do with the quality of the meat? And is conformation not related to good breeding? I really am showing my ignorance here.

How much depends on management? I have someone (who may or may not know what she's talking about) telling me that if the breeding sucks the meat will be inedible. I would love to hear that that's not true.

I don't know of a breed, that if properly fed, would not produce very good quality meat. Management/feeding practices are what is critical.


I am not one of those people yet, but someday will be.

Keep this sentence in mind in this forum, especially the part before the comma. Concentrate on these steers you are bringing home, keep safe, and read up on breeds and conformation and meat quality. That is the stuff it takes years to get a handle on.. :lol: :lol:

 

[la4angus]

How bad would it be if I bought a calf from a different herd?

Why not buy another from the same herd?

 

[andrea]

Hey, thanks for all the good advice.

 

[msscamp]

I would be careful of how tame I got this steer. Taming him down will remove the natural fear of humans, negate the respect that comes from that, and can get you hurt. It is not my intent to patronize, but with your statement of this being your first steer I don't know if you've been around cattle or not, and felt it was definitely worth mentioning.

So is there any happy medium? I know when I gentle a mustang there is a middle state where they will tolerate people but still have a fear, and so are... hmm, hard to put this into words... Handleable but easy to move.

Yes, there is a happy medium - you want to aim for the middle stage where they are calm and easy to handle, but do not get in your face looking to play, will run over you, or are difficult to move with the herd because they are too tame. I hope that makes sense.

How do you handle a wild full grown steer? Is the only way to do it with chutes? I really hope no one rips into me for this question. I can find my answers elsewhere but I thought this would be a good place to learn too.

Very, very carefully! The wilder the animal, the more likely he/she is to try to jump, try to go through fences, run over you in a panic, and trying to handle them stresses them dramatically, thus opening the door for illness. Whether you need a chute or not depends on what you're doing. I personally tend to use a chute for most things requiring restraint because it gives me more control over the situation lessening the chances of the animal or myself getting hurt.

Speaking only for myself, a lot of times people jump into cattle ownership without doing their homework and knowing the basics, and the cattle suffer because of that. I don't like seeing animals suffer when it could have easily been prevented.

I hope I know enough to keep that from happening. I am gathering knowledge as fast as I can. Admittedly I need to get more on the ball, I've had a lot on my plate lately. I do have a few people to fall back on in case of emergency. My vet and the guy I'm buying the other calf from. He's a fountain of knowledge.

I think you're doing great! You might want to think about purchasing Heather Smith Thomas' book "Storeys Guide to Raising Beef Cattle". It's a good book that covers quite a few topics and will give you a pretty good basic foundation to build from. That being said, keep in mind that nobody knows everything there is to know about cattle and you will undoubtedly have situations/problems you will not be able to diagnose or know how to handle. I'm not trying to discourage you or be negative with that statement - it's simply a part of the cattle business - and if you have them you're going to lose them on occasion.

As far as the poor quality, conformation has little (if anything) to do with how an animal will taste on your plate.

So does breeding not have anything to do with the quality of the meat? And is conformation not related to good breeding? I really am showing my ignorance here. Back to the subject - how much does genetics affect taste? How much depends on management? I have someone (who may or may not know what she's talking about) telling me that if the breeding sucks the meat will be inedible. I would love to hear that that's not true.

Good conformation is a quality that is always hoped for from any mating, but it does not always happen. Conformation has no effect on the quality or taste of the meat, in my honest opinion. We sell the best steers and butcher those that don't make the cut, and it's some mighty fine beef! ;-) I think you can take any young animal, regardless of their breed, who their mother was bred to, or what they look like and turn out some good beef. Some breeds have the capability to finish on grass, and some don't. Feed your critter a good amount of corn for the last 60 days or so and I think you will be pleased. I believe your 'someone' is wrong.

I sincerely doubt that you will find any one who knows how to take care of cattle unless they have them or have had them at some point in their lives.

I am not one of those people yet, but someday will be.

Thanks again for the help!

No problem! Yes, I believe that someday you will be, too!