Fencing.... Feeling REALLY stupid right now..

[Wisteria Farms]

Wisteria,

This post was on my mind and got me to thinking. I once thought my dad and grandad exercised overkill when it came to fencing. It certainly seemed like more effort than everyone else put in to it. Now, having had some experiences of my own with neighbor cows coming on to the place, I do more than they did. It is much easier to handle things when cows cannot penetrate the fence in any way.

Backhoe....I've read a lot of your posts... so what do you recommend? (ie. "when cows cannot penetrate the fence in any way".) I thought this is what I HAD with the rail fence...

 

[Mahoney Pursley Ranch]

I'd put some long standoff type insulators on those boards and run a strip or two of electric horse tape around the area you are having problems with. I'd also get a solar charger setup and make sure the ground system is good.

 

[CKC1586]

Have you thought about stapling cattle panel to the boards? You can use a bolt cutter to cut it to the size from your top and bottom boards, or you can staple it to your posts. Should do the job for you.

 

[larryshoat]

We use high tensile 5 wire interior 7 for perimeter.Thats probably overkill but if the electric goes it's enough to hold them for a while.We use T post in the line,but those snap on insulators drive us crazy.They are Dare.Does anyone know of a better insulator for T posts?This year I bought a Gallagher Quick Fix to find faults.Saved a ton of time.

Larry

 

[Alan]

Wisteria,

This post was on my mind and got me to thinking. I once thought my dad and grandad exercised overkill when it came to fencing. It certainly seemed like more effort than everyone else put in to it. Now, having had some experiences of my own with neighbor cows coming on to the place, I do more than they did. It is much easier to handle things when cows cannot penetrate the fence in any way.

This has become my thought, It's not that I want a fence to hope to keep my cattle in, I want a fence that the cattle know will keep them in. I make sure my fence is red hot every day, the cows respect it and know how far to push it. If a cow knows it can get through a fence it will, the grass is always greener...

Over kill is a great way to go.

Alan

 

[backhoeboogie]

... so what do you recommend?

You have already gone through the expense of the rails. I assume the rails have an appeasing appearance and that is why you used them. The positive side to rails is that it braces each and every one of your posts.

What I would likely do, if I were in your situation, is to run 5 strands of wire on the outside of the posts, leaving the rails insitu. You could place the wire stategically between the rails. You would essentially maintain the same appearance the rails afford you now.

Electric wire, as mentioned in other posts, would also be an option but I find electric wire to be a maintenance problem, especially if you have lots of wild life, or worse yet in my case, lots of feral hogs. I personally use electric for temporary remedies only, on interior barrier, and only when cow panels cannot be used in the interim. You cannot control vegetation growth on neighboring properties and the electric wire needs to precluce contact with vegetation.

Your three rails will likely contain most tame adult cows. It will be a problem with calves though, as you have discovered. I have amazingly seen young calves will step right through 5 strand fences.

 

[Brute 23]

6 wire barbed wire on perimeter fences

put a hot wire between the boards.

Its always good to expose cattle to one good, hot wire. They tend to respect all wire a little more after in my opinion. :lol:

 

[HEREFORD ROADHOG]

48 '' WOVEN WIRE FENCE ,POSTS EVERY 16 FT. ONE STRAND OF BARB WIRE 4'' ABOVE IT & A SINGLE STRAND OF HEAVY GAUGE HOT WIRE IN THE MIDDLE ON 6'' INSULATORS. WILL KEEP THEM IN. OR USE CATTLE PANELS, THEY CAN GET EXPENSIVE BUT THEY WILL LAST FOR MANY YEARS .:cboy:

 

[grannysoo]

Wisteria,

This post was on my mind and got me to thinking. I once thought my dad and grandad exercised overkill when it came to fencing. It certainly seemed like more effort than everyone else put in to it. Now, having had some experiences of my own with neighbor cows coming on to the place, I do more than they did. It is much easier to handle things when cows cannot penetrate the fence in any way.

This has become my thought, It's not that I want a fence to hope to keep my cattle in, I want a fence that the cattle know will keep them in. I make sure my fence is red hot every day, the cows respect it and know how far to push it. If a cow knows it can get through a fence it will, the grass is always greener...

Over kill is a great way to go.

Alan

Over kill is the key word here. Cows don't want to touch my fence any more than I do. My fence is hot and it hurts!

I had a problem this spring with the drought and my fence not grounding, so I changed the setup to this:

4 wire fence. Top wire is hot, next one down is ground, bottom 2 are hot. Grounded at charger with 12' brass rod. Running a total of 20 miles or so of wire on a 200 mile fence charger.

This fence will make you hurt yourself.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

Have you thought about stapling cattle panel to the boards? You can use a bolt cutter to cut it to the size from your top and bottom boards, or you can staple it to your posts. Should do the job for you.

Yes I have, thanks. But this is a pretty large area so I'll probably go with some electric (more cost effective) and then rethink the new pastures with the suggestions here.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

... so what do you recommend?

You have already gone through the expense of the rails. I assume the rails have an appeasing appearance and that is why you used them. The positive side to rails is that it braces each and every one of your posts.

What I would likely do, if I were in your situation, is to run 5 strands of wire on the outside of the posts, leaving the rails insitu. You could place the wire stategically between the rails. You would essentially maintain the same appearance the rails afford you now.

Electric wire, as mentioned in other posts, would also be an option but I find electric wire to be a maintenance problem, especially if you have lots of wild life, or worse yet in my case, lots of feral hogs. I personally use electric for temporary remedies only, on interior barrier, and only when cow panels cannot be used in the interim. You cannot control vegetation growth on neighboring properties and the electric wire needs to precluce contact with vegetation.

Your three rails will likely contain most tame adult cows. It will be a problem with calves though, as you have discovered. I have amazingly seen young calves will step right through 5 strand fences.

Yes, we built the rail fence because we built our "last" house (you know the one, where you say I'm never moving again!). We wanted the front pasture to look nice from the road. Hindsight is 20/20. Now I'm cursing a pretty fence that I'm going to have to fix regularly unless I get smart quick. Last year's cattle were no problem... not one broken board, but this little guy is teaching me a lesson about calves. Thanks for your concern and replies.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

By the way ~ Sell that calf soonest..

No can do... he's my daughter's '08 show calf. The only saving grace is that I've been advised to keep him somewhat confined on a grain diet (instead of free range) in the interest of weight gain. I'm asking this primarily for the NEXT group that'll go on that pasture. Under normal circumstances he'd be going to town PDQ.

 

[msscamp]

Thanks for the replies everyone...
As for the horses/barbed wire issue...I don't be-grudge anyone for doing what works for them. HOWEVER... my aunt lost her horse due to getting spooked and running through the barbed wire. It sliced her sides open and she had to be put down. So, I guess I'm a little wigged out about putting my horses anywhere near the stuff.

Unless you're willing to put up separate fencing for your horses in certain areas - and that will get pricey - you can't have it both ways. You're going to have to decide what makes the money, and go from there. Harsh? Yes, but it is a fact of life.

We've also gotten old rusted out sections (laying on the ground and unseen) get caught in the mower... always good for putting the husband in a ripe mood.

Why are you allowing your fencing to get in this condition? It is not that difficult to do a routine check once in a while and replace the wire that is no longer servicable. Cheap? No, but it is another fact of life when it comes to cattle.

But its clear I have to do something... I've been lucky not to go out and find a calf with a board stuck in his side.... will let you know how we proceed. Thanks again.

Yes, you have. I would be far more concerned with a calf/cow getting out on the highway and getting hit - that could very easily put you out of business before you ever got started. Liability is not something to be taken lightly and, given your description of your fences, you would be liable.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

Thanks for the replies everyone...
As for the horses/barbed wire issue...I don't be-grudge anyone for doing what works for them. HOWEVER... my aunt lost her horse due to getting spooked and running through the barbed wire. It sliced her sides open and she had to be put down. So, I guess I'm a little wigged out about putting my horses anywhere near the stuff.

Unless you're willing to put up separate fencing for your horses in certain areas - and that will get pricey - you can't have it both ways. You're going to have to decide what makes the money, and go from there. Harsh? Yes, but it is a fact of life.

We've also had old rusted out sections (laying on the ground and unseen) get caught in the mower... always good for putting the husband in a ripe mood.

Why are you allowing your fencing to get in this condition? It is not that difficult to do a routine check once in a while and replace the wire that is no longer servicable. Cheap? No, but it is another fact of life when it comes to cattle.

But its clear I have to do something... I've been lucky not to go out and find a calf with a board stuck in his side.... will let you know how we proceed. Thanks again.

Yes, you have. I would be far more concerned with a calf/cow getting out on the highway and getting hit - that could very easily put you out of business before you ever got started. Liability is not something to be taken lightly and, given your description of your fences, you would be liable.

First, by running the rail fence I was trying to have a fence that both the horses and cows could be rotated through. I didn't realize calves could be that hard on wood fences. Before I go to the expense of running any MORE fence, I'm trying to find the most practical solution to my problem. I've stated before, I'm new to cattle. I realize they are the money makers and I'm trying to make things safe for them.

Second, I'm not allowing anything. The areas of barbed wire I mentioned above do not contain ANY animals. But, for the record, I inherited this "condition" because the farmer before me let things go for a very LONG time. My back hill was his trash dump. We have walked the property, coiling up as much old rusted barbed wire as we could see BUT there have been a couple times when pieces of the broken stuff got caught in the brush hog. My horses are contained by 3 strand poly electric wire... we started running a new wood pasture because we liked the look.

Third, you're scolding me on the particulars of liability... I'm in construction. I deal with liability issues on a daily basis and in 10 years of business, my company has not had a single accident. I take safety and liability very seriously because if I don't I could lose everything I've worked my entire life to build.

Because you're usually very helpful and kind, I'm going to not get my feelings hurt over what I think was a misunderstanding of my situation.

 

[dun]

I'm confused with the term "board" in a "rail" fence. A rail and a board are 2 completely different items. Got a picture?

 

[flaboy]

Perimeter fences should be pig tight and horse high.

I am in the process of gradually working all of my perimeter fencing into Red Top field fence with barbed wire on top. I am doing this mainly to keep the hogs out. My horses are mostly kept in the same type of fence but occasionally they get let out into bigger pastures with just barbed wire. Over the years I have had one or two get cut in the barbed wire but nothing real major. Had one run through and broke two strands and just got a few scratches. He never did it again though. I always make sure they know where the fences are.

Fences are easy on them compared to the gators. Saw a filly the other day with two 10-12 inch gashes in her belly from a gator attack. Vet sewed her up and she is fine.

I would never use rail or board fences for perimeter fencing alone. If I had a wooden fence it would have field fencing inside it.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Wisteria,

On the loose wire you have found with the mower, It scares the heck out of me. That is dangerous. If a cow or horse gets a foot tangled in wire, it is a sure injury, if not death. I personally know of atleast a dozen times through the years where people couldn't find cattle. You search a couple hundred acres and assume they got out. The buzzards found the cows, caught up in wire that is balled up on their feet and now caught in brush. Pull that wire out and bury it deep, deep, asap.

 

[WORANCH]

Thanks for the replies everyone...
As for the horses/barbed wire issue...I don't be-grudge anyone for doing what works for them. HOWEVER... my aunt lost her horse due to getting spooked and running through the barbed wire. It sliced her sides open and she had to be put down. So, I guess I'm a little wigged out about putting my horses anywhere near the stuff.

Unless you're willing to put up separate fencing for your horses in certain areas - and that will get pricey - you can't have it both ways. You're going to have to decide what makes the money, and go from there. Harsh? Yes, but it is a fact of life.

We've also had old rusted out sections (laying on the ground and unseen) get caught in the mower... always good for putting the husband in a ripe mood.

Why are you allowing your fencing to get in this condition? It is not that difficult to do a routine check once in a while and replace the wire that is no longer servicable. Cheap? No, but it is another fact of life when it comes to cattle.

But its clear I have to do something... I've been lucky not to go out and find a calf with a board stuck in his side.... will let you know how we proceed. Thanks again.

Yes, you have. I would be far more concerned with a calf/cow getting out on the highway and getting hit - that could very easily put you out of business before you ever got started. Liability is not something to be taken lightly and, given your description of your fences, you would be liable.

First, by running the rail fence I was trying to have a fence that both the horses and cows could be rotated through. I didn't realize calves could be that hard on wood fences. Before I go to the expense of running any MORE fence, I'm trying to find the most practical solution to my problem. I've stated before, I'm new to cattle. I realize they are the money makers and I'm trying to make things safe for them.

Second, I'm not allowing anything. The areas of barbed wire I mentioned above do not contain ANY animals. But, for the record, I inherited this "condition" because the farmer before me let things go for a very LONG time. My back hill was his trash dump. We have walked the property, coiling up as much old rusted barbed wire as we could see BUT there have been a couple times when pieces of the broken stuff got caught in the brush hog. My horses are contained by 3 strand poly electric wire... we started running a new wood pasture because we liked the look.

Third, you're scolding me on the particulars of liability... I'm in construction. I deal with liability issues on a daily basis and in 10 years of business, my company has not had a single accident. I take safety and liability very seriously because if I don't I could lose everything I've worked my entire life to build.

Because you're usually very helpful and kind, I'm going to not get my feelings hurt over what I think was a misunderstanding of my situation.

Just run your hot wire about a foot inside the rail or board fence .

 

[Wisteria Farms]

Wisteria,

On the loose wire you have found with the mower, It scares the heck out of me. That is dangerous. If a cow or horse gets a foot tangled in wire, it is a sure injury, if not death. I personally know of atleast a dozen times through the years where people couldn't find cattle. You search a couple hundred acres and assume they got out. The buzzards found the cows, caught up in wire that is balled up on their feet and now caught in brush. Pull that wire out and bury it deep, deep, asap.

Backhoe... trust me my animals are all inside of fencing that I built myself... there are no animals near the old fenceline I'm taking about. As I mentioned before... my aunts horse was killed by barbed wire (where she boarded) I DON"T LIKE BARBED WIRE!

Here's my fence...(you can't see the electric the horses are on... I'll get a shot of that too).

 

[Wisteria Farms]

I'm confused with the term "board" in a "rail" fence. A rail and a board are 2 completely different items. Got a picture?

Sorry Dun... now I'm confused.... I thought the boards/rails were the same thing.... like a 3-rail fence, a 5-rail fence. To me, they all describe board fences. Let me know if I need corrected.... you can see a picture I just posted. Thanks