Fencer issues

[uplandnut]

Hoping one or more of you gentlemen can enlighten me on a fencer issue I have been having. Somehow I have had a current find it's way into one of my automatic waterer, that sits 30 feet away?
Daughter noticed it the other day when she was cleaning the tank. Stuck her hand into the water and got a couple shocks, unplugged the fencer and was able to finish cleaning the tank without further incident. When I came home I plugged the fencer back in to see if it would do it again and nothing? My daughter got home from milking and seeing the fencer was on stuck her hand in it as well, nothing.
This explains the reason the horses have acted funny at times by the waterer, but in the past no one has been able to get a shock out of the water?
The waterer is 30 feet from the fencer, no hot wires any closer than 20 feet, closest point of contact would be the ground rods which are no closer than 15 feet to the water line at the closest. The waterer is the 2nd on in a series of 2, the other one has never had any issues that anyone has noticed, cows never made a fuss, nor the horses currently drinking out of it. is it possible that the fencer is back feeding into the ground rods and they are able to transfer the voltage through the ground into the waterer? It's about the only thing I can think of. Fencer is a Zareba 100 mile fencer, was rebuilt about 2 winters ago. Looking for ideas as it is not consistent so troubleshooting is kind of a bugger.
Thanks for any suggestions

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

It is super wet where you are like it is here? We had the exact same issue a few years ago when the ground was so wet it acted like a huge sponge when you stepped on it. We moved the fencer from about 20 feet from the waterer, out to about 30 yards from the waterer. No shock issues since. BTW, it was our horses that alerted us to the issue too! They must be super sensative to the current.

 

[JW IN VA]

someone who knows more than I please chime in but I don't think the grounds should be affecting it unless there is a short in the line/poor connection somewhere. :2cents: minus .01

 

[dun]

If there is a short in the fence that will sometimes throw more voltage into your ground system. If you have netal pipes or even could be your well casing you could be getting voltage through that. There is a test for the ground system where you ground out the fence and check to voltage on the charger ground. Don;t know exactly how to do it but I think the Gallagher fencing manual explains it and I thinks someone on the boards talked about it a while back

 

[callmefence]

I wish I had something but i really don't.
I would sure check grounds . does the fence cross the water line? (post driven near water line. Does the fence go underground anywear? If so is it the proper wire.? Would it happened to have been wet out when the shock occured?

If you haven't stumbled on this . pretty good article.


http://www.pasturepro.com/blog/2011/06/ ... c-fencing/

 

[greybeard]

Hoping one or more of you gentlemen can enlighten me on a fencer issue I have been having. Somehow I have had a current find it's way into one of my automatic waterer, that sits 30 feet away?
Daughter noticed it the other day when she was cleaning the tank. Stuck her hand into the water and got a couple shocks, unplugged the fencer and was able to finish cleaning the tank without further incident. When I came home I plugged the fencer back in to see if it would do it again and nothing? My daughter got home from milking and seeing the fencer was on stuck her hand in it as well, nothing.
This explains the reason the horses have acted funny at times by the waterer, but in the past no one has been able to get a shock out of the water?
The waterer is 30 feet from the fencer, no hot wires any closer than 20 feet, closest point of contact would be the ground rods which are no closer than 15 feet to the water line at the closest. The waterer is the 2nd on in a series of 2, the other one has never had any issues that anyone has noticed, cows never made a fuss, nor the horses currently drinking out of it. is it possible that the fencer is back feeding into the ground rods and they are able to transfer the voltage through the ground into the waterer? It's about the only thing I can think of. Fencer is a Zareba 100 mile fencer, was rebuilt about 2 winters ago. Looking for ideas as it is not consistent so troubleshooting is kind of a bugger.
Thanks for any suggestions

I ran into this problem once before in a little mudhole that was near a fencing circuit.
Just to eliminate any outliers, could you tell us in a little more detail how she "was cleaning the tank" and how the water is piped to the tank?

 

[uplandnut]

Ok, so my plan is to move the fencer with new ground rods this weekend, and see if that takes care of the problem. I have had some wet times but the fencer is on the highest area I have and the ground rods are in shale sand. Power to the fencer is by 10 gauge extension cord. The waterer is piped from the house out and goes threw another one first. The run from house toe the first waterer is about 300ft as is the run from the 1st waterer to the 2nd. Water line is 3/4 with power for tank heaters running with the water line underground, power is off since this spring. I'm going to keep a better eye on the line and see if there is a correlation with shorts and shocks in the water. Never paid any attention to it before but the line has had shorts before.
Greybeard my daughter was just rubbing the stainless pan with her bare hand to clean the waterer out.

 

[greybeard]

Plastic or metal water lines?
Could it be that the soil conditions are such that the piping is finding a less resistive return to the fencer thru the piping (if metal) than a higher resistance of the soil?

 

[uplandnut]

The 3/4 water line is a plastic line.

 

[dun]

The 3/4 water line is a plastic line.

If you are on well than I would think the voltage is coming via the well casing and not the plastic water line. Or it could be that the waterer itself is grounded well enough that it could be the problem

 

[uplandnut]

the only question I would have about the well being the issue is that it has never been an issue on the first waterer in the series. Also water is not run direct from the well, ties in in the basement out of the same line the shower ties into. I will look into that option though.

 

[dun]

the only question I would have about the well being the issue is that it has never been an issue on the first waterer in the series. Also water is not run direct from the well, ties in in the basement out of the same line the shower ties into. I will look into that option though.

The only reason I mentioned it was because one of the dairys had a terrible time intermittantly with stray voltage. In his case it was the well, but his was a pump issue not a fence charger issue.

 

[JW IN VA]

the only question I would have about the well being the issue is that it has never been an issue on the first waterer in the series. Also water is not run direct from the well, ties in in the basement out of the same line the shower ties into. I will look into that option though.

The only reason I mentioned it was because one of the dairys had a terrible time intermittantly with stray voltage. In his case it was the well, but his was a pump issue not a fence charger issue.

It would seem that its coming from the well or waterer.The pipe, being plastic, would not be a factor.The water would be charged at the well or tank.
Un plug the charger and check the tank for voltage.Then throw breaker to the pump and reconnect charger.Check again.That should tell you which,if either is the problem.Bear in mind the pump may need to be running to know if it is the problem.
Is the tank metal?Or the discharge?

 

[JW IN VA]

If there is a short in the fence that will sometimes throw more voltage into your ground system. If you have netal pipes or even could be your well casing you could be getting voltage through that. There is a test for the ground system where you ground out the fence and check to voltage on the charger ground. Don;t know exactly how to do it but I think the Gallagher fencing manual explains it and I thinks someone on the boards talked about it a while back

Kencove.com has a test sequence like you are talking about.
Gallagher has good ideas.They recommend 75' between he charger and any metal lines or tanks.Check out their tests,too

 

[uplandnut]

This morning I woke up to my fencer producing a shock when I touched the tank a metal feeder again. So I unplugged it for the day. Came home tonight and plugged the fencer in and found it was still producing a shock. Tested the fence for voltage and found I was only at 2k volts, should be 7k. Walked my fence found nothing major wrong but unhooked a section I didn't have time to walk before dark and my voltage went back to 7k volts. Went back up to waterer and put my hand in the water and touched the feeder and no shock. Bad short?
I'll walk the fence tomorrow and find the bad spot and try it again but I'm hoping its just a dead short in the line that caused it. Never realized that would do it until I posted the question about my fencer here, so thanks you for all the suggestions.
Thanks you for all suggestions and advice. Hoping this is the end of my dilemma and it is just a sign I need to check the fence.

 

[kenny thomas]

For anyone with fence issues or even if you don't try this. Take a steel fence post or anything metal that will short out the fence real bad. Go 50 yds or so from the charger and put it on the fence shorting it out really bad. Now turn the charger back on, oh forgot to say to turn the charger off first. Now that you have turned the charger back on go to the ground rods and test them. If you only have 1 ground rod I will guarantee it will have power on it. Add ground rods and make sure you use a continuous wire to connect them. If its a really strong charger it may take 4-5 rods before you get the charge down to 0. After getting it to 0 add one more rod. Your fence will then be as good as it can be.
I have 4 10ft rods hooked together buried under the drip of the barn.

 

[kenny thomas]

Oh place each rod 10ft from the last one will work best. I know it seems like a lot of work but it will pay in the end.