FELTONS DOMINO 774 {SOD,CHB,DLF,HYF,IEF} (P23864055

[LFF]

For Hereford breeders that were leery of using any Feltons 774, the test are completed.

 

[JAH]

The only thing I can see as i major detriment is.... is he double polled? If so send his pecker draggin no assed corn fed polled ass to Iowa

 

[Herefords.US]

For Hereford breeders that were leery of using any Feltons 774, the test are completed.

Testing didn't change his pedigree!

George

 

[dun]

What tests?

 

[alacattleman]

What tests?

for a draging pecker :cowboy:

 

[Brandonm22]

If he is diluter free, so who the heck cares if his great great great great Grandaddy was a diluter carrier or not. I have always found the criticism of Feltons Domino 774 to be humorous and almost completely without merit. Titan 23D had some flaws, but he is far from the scariest name one can find deep in Hereford pedigrees.

 

[Herefords.US]

If he is diluter free, so who the heck cares if his great great great great Grandaddy was a diluter carrier or not. I have always found the criticism of Feltons Domino 774 to be humorous and almost completely without merit. Titan 23D had some flaws, but he is far from the scariest name one can find deep in Hereford pedigrees.

Who cares? Pretty easy to say when you don't own any registered Herefords and aren't trying to sell any that trace back to 23D. It might not make any difference to you - or ME! But there are still some folks around to whom it does make a difference! You can discuss the VALIDITY of their concerns until "the cows come home" but it doesn't change the way they feel!

George

 

[Hereford76]

If he is diluter free, so who the heck cares if his great great great great Grandaddy was a diluter carrier or not. I have always found the criticism of Feltons Domino 774 to be humorous and almost completely without merit. Titan 23D had some flaws, but he is far from the scariest name one can find deep in Hereford pedigrees.

Who cares? Pretty easy to say when you don't own any registered Herefords and aren't trying to sell any that trace back to 23D. It might not make any difference to you - or ME! But there are still some folks around to whom it does make a difference! You can discuss the VALIDITY of their concerns until "the cows come home" but it doesn't change the way they feel!

George

:nod: :!: :!:

also brandon your key word was "almost".... and i don't care to get into this topic again. thanks

 

[Northern Rancher]

Titan 7777 was one of the best Simmental bull I ever used ONCE!!!!!

 

[Hey you]

If I wanted a crossbreed I'd buy a crossbreed

 

[LFF]

Cross breed ?

Whatever.

What if a small, ever growing smaller, group of individuals don't want any 774 bloodline? That is their choice. It is also their choice to incorrectly say that the majority of Hereford breeders will not use 774 sons or offspring. I have to agree that many of 774's calves do not have the pigment and color that I want, however some of them are acceptable. I believe that it is perfectly fine if a person does not choose to use him or his offspring in their programs. I don't think that it is correct or polite to make statements that critize other breeders programs that use 774.

Personally I don't think I know a single one of the cattle board Hereford posters, however some have made some very good and valid statements to the forum.

 

[LFF]

[Who cares? Pretty easy to say when you don't own any registered Herefords and aren't trying to sell any that trace back to 23D. It might not make any difference to you - or ME! But there are still some folks around to whom it does make a difference! You can discuss the VALIDITY of their concerns until "the cows come home" but it doesn't change the way they feel!

George

George, seems like no one is having any problems selling animals that trace back to 23D.

Examples:
FELTONS OZZIE 492 {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42223168)
MSU TCF REVOLUTION 4R {CHB,DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42593689)
FELTONS LEGEND 242 {SOD,CHB,HYF} (P42016383)
KCF BENNETT 774 R413 {CHB} (P42651310)
FELTONS OLAF 414 {CHB} (P42223202)
KCF BENNETT 9126J P18 {CHB} (P42530680)
FELTONS MAGNUM 434 {CHB,DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42228848)
SKY CMR TRAFFIC 774 102P ET (P42467353)
LAGRAND DOMINO 39P (P42538188)
HUTH DOMINO S028 (P42725121)
SPARKS 774 6200S {DLF,IEF} (P42737848)
KCF BENNETT RED HOUSE S330 {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42763158)
STAR L3 GERBER VISION 053 {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42811435)
DR MRF COMPLETE 774 UR04 ET {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42905254)
MC 774 DOMINO U886 ET {DLF,IEF} (P42923022)
R&R 774 NAVIGATOR 009K 8152 ET {DLF,IEF} (P42942167)
CMR TF 242 GARRETT 430 (P42563522)
BAR JZ LEGENDARY 819T {DLF,IEF} (P42798575)
SHF PROGRESS P20 {CHB,DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42481042)
MSU TCF SAGINAW 5S {CHB,DLF,IEF} (P42709405)
EF F745 FRANK P230 {CHB} (P42528669)
LFF CHESTER P230 OF S1 {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42886583)
BOYD WORLDWIDE 9050 ET {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42982024)

And many many more

 

[Herefords.US]

Cross breed ?

Whatever.

What if a small, ever growing smaller, group of individuals don't want any 774 bloodline? That is their choice. It is also their choice to incorrectly say that the majority of Hereford breeders will not use 774 sons or offspring.

I think you're right - the percentage of folks resistant to 23D in the background is growing smaller. However, If you were to poll this group of Hereford breeders,
http://texashereford.org/members.htm
and particularly those that have been members of the THA for 10 years or more, you'd find that a majority of them wouldn't use 774 or his descendants. And probably a significant majority of them - probably 75% or more! As you can see from the CT posts, the mention of 23D still ruffles the feathers of a lot of folks, from Canada, and throughout the US - not just in Texas. It's a little more prominent here in Texas because so many breeders got caught up in the "Prime Time" deal (TEX PRIME TIME) and had to deal with the diluter problem.

I have to agree that many of 774's calves do not have the pigment and color that I want, however some of them are acceptable. I believe that it is perfectly fine if a person does not choose to use him or his offspring in their programs. I don't think that it is correct or polite to make statements that critize other breeders programs that use 774.
Correct or polite???? :lol2: :lol2: :?: This IS a cattle discussion board! Show me an online discussion board that doesn't have disagreements or debates and I'll show you one that has absolutely no following and is dead from lack of readership. I've had my own breeding program criticized here - in my use of both Keynote and Pure Gold progeny, as well as my "lack of attention" to my cattle since I don't babysit them every day -or sometimes every week, even when they are calving.

Good grief, LFF! You don't like criticism? My advice would be to just stay off these boards then! Because if you post something there's a good chance someone's going to disagree with you! And even breeders who don't post here have their cattle critiqued and criticized. It comes with the territory! To be fair - in the past, I've been known to give a breeder a "head's up" when that happens - I think everyone has a right to defend themselves and their program. Most don't bother with replying, but Jack Holden did!

Personally I don't think I know a single one of the cattle board Hereford posters, however some have made some very good and valid statements to the forum.

As far as no one having trouble selling 23D descendants, it's hard to prove a negative - so I won't bother to argue. No doubt some very prominent breeders have and use them - more so in the polled cattle than the horned. But I believe the advice I was given when I started back in the cattle business in 2002 was very sound. It was given by two different prominent breeders, independently, one in the west and one located not that far from where you are, LFF. And both had some cattle in their herd that traced back to 23D. Both advised me to avoid 23D in any of my foundation stock because there was a stigma that was associated with them - and there was a number of breeders who would not only discount those particular cattle, but discount your whole herd if you had any 23D descendants in it. The posts of others in this thread - and threads about this in the past - proves that to be true!

George

 

[rocket2222]

He's a good bull to use on some Hereford/angus F1's. Make's for a good 3 way cross :nod: :lol:

 

[rocket2222]

[Who cares? Pretty easy to say when you don't own any registered Herefords and aren't trying to sell any that trace back to 23D. It might not make any difference to you - or ME! But there are still some folks around to whom it does make a difference! You can discuss the VALIDITY of their concerns until "the cows come home" but it doesn't change the way they feel!

George

George, seems like no one is having any problems selling animals that trace back to 23D.

Examples:
FELTONS OZZIE 492 {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42223168)
MSU TCF REVOLUTION 4R {CHB,DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42593689)
FELTONS LEGEND 242 {SOD,CHB,HYF} (P42016383)
KCF BENNETT 774 R413 {CHB} (P42651310)
FELTONS OLAF 414 {CHB} (P42223202)
KCF BENNETT 9126J P18 {CHB} (P42530680)
FELTONS MAGNUM 434 {CHB,DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42228848)
SKY CMR TRAFFIC 774 102P ET (P42467353)
LAGRAND DOMINO 39P (P42538188)
HUTH DOMINO S028 (P42725121)
SPARKS 774 6200S {DLF,IEF} (P42737848)
KCF BENNETT RED HOUSE S330 {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42763158)
STAR L3 GERBER VISION 053 {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42811435)
DR MRF COMPLETE 774 UR04 ET {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42905254)
MC 774 DOMINO U886 ET {DLF,IEF} (P42923022)
R&R 774 NAVIGATOR 009K 8152 ET {DLF,IEF} (P42942167)
CMR TF 242 GARRETT 430 (P42563522)
BAR JZ LEGENDARY 819T {DLF,IEF} (P42798575)
SHF PROGRESS P20 {CHB,DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42481042)
MSU TCF SAGINAW 5S {CHB,DLF,IEF} (P42709405)
EF F745 FRANK P230 {CHB} (P42528669)
LFF CHESTER P230 OF S1 {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42886583)
BOYD WORLDWIDE 9050 ET {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42982024)

And many many more

I like some of the Feltons line, and I don't think I'm a purist, but I have a problem with using a bull or cow that has a question mark about their pedigree, will not use any on your list either.

 

[LFF]

Good grief, LFF! You don't like criticism? My advice would be to just stay off these boards then! Because if you post something there's a good chance someone's going to disagree with you! And even breeders who don't post here have their cattle critiqued and criticized. It comes with the territory! To be fair - in the past, I've been known to give a breeder a "head's up" when that happens - I think everyone has a right to defend themselves and their program. Most don't bother with replying, but Jack Holden did![/b]

Personally I don't think I know a single one of the cattle board Hereford posters, however some have made some very good and valid statements to the forum.

George[/quote]

I don't mind constructive criticism.

As far as staying off the boards, I think that a few individuals have managed to group together and express their views like they are experts, and have caused many others not to post on the boards with their attitudes.

Seems like the board has a clique of horned breeders that put down polled cattle and any cattle that don't match their ideals or breeding.

If you horned breeders want constructive criticism then straighten up the sloppy udders. Holden included.

You can give him a heads up if you want.

 

[Herefords.US]

I don't mind constructive criticism.

As far as staying off the boards, I think that a few individuals have managed to group together and express their views like they are experts, and have caused many others not to post on the boards with their attitudes.

Seems like the board has a clique of horned breeders that put down polled cattle and any cattle that don't match their ideals or breeding.

If you're including me in that group, you're dead wrong! I have both polled and horned Herefords. Given my druthers, I'd rather have 100% polled - simply because I hate dehorning. But I haven't been able to find everything I want in polled bulls, so I still have some horned Herefords. In Texas I'm kinda in "no man's land" - because I know there's a certain group that won't like my cattle because they have horned blood in them - and another group that won't like them because they have polled blood in them. But I accept that as a fact - the same way anyone who has Hereford cattle that traces back to Titan 23D should accept that there's going to be folks that don't like them for that reason alone. I don't breed and raise my cattle to suit anyone else - whether they suit me or not is what's important to me. That doesn't mean I don't seek advice from others I respect and who have more experience - just that I may or may NOT follow that advice.

If I always followed the advice of others I respect, I sure wouldn't be posting my opinions on this CT board, especially my views regarding the "uselessness" of using EPDs in choosing virgin Hereford bulls or choosing between cows/heifers. I understand I've ruffled a few feathers in some "so-called" important circles with my comments. But I struggled for 5+ years before I came to that conviction about EPDs and I'd like to save others the same struggle - when they really study them and see that things just don't add up. Now the ignorant who simply want to accept EPDs as absolute fact, and the very best means to select breeding stock, I'm probably not going to do much to help them. :dunce:

If you horned breeders want constructive criticism then straighten up the sloppy udders. Holden included.

You can give him a heads up if you want.

We've had this debate before here. As long as an udder remains functional, I'm not too concerned with how pretty it is. There are a number of areas where I would place a higher priority in selection. No doubt I've seen pictures of some Holden bred cows that weren't functional - in my opinion. But that kind of criticism sure doesn't rise to the level where I'd contact Jack. A ongoing discussion of the purity of one of his herd bulls does - especially since he's probably got the most DNA profiled and tested herd that exists in the Hereford breed. It was a thread you participated in, LFF:
http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27780&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=0024

George

 

[Brandonm22]

[Who cares? Pretty easy to say when you don't own any registered Herefords and aren't trying to sell any that trace back to 23D. It might not make any difference to you - or ME! But there are still some folks around to whom it does make a difference! You can discuss the VALIDITY of their concerns until "the cows come home" but it doesn't change the way they feel!

George

George, seems like no one is having any problems selling animals that trace back to 23D.

Examples:
FELTONS OZZIE 492 {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42223168)
MSU TCF REVOLUTION 4R {CHB,DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42593689)
FELTONS LEGEND 242 {SOD,CHB,HYF} (P42016383)
KCF BENNETT 774 R413 {CHB} (P42651310)
FELTONS OLAF 414 {CHB} (P42223202)
KCF BENNETT 9126J P18 {CHB} (P42530680)
FELTONS MAGNUM 434 {CHB,DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42228848)
SKY CMR TRAFFIC 774 102P ET (P42467353)
LAGRAND DOMINO 39P (P42538188)
HUTH DOMINO S028 (P42725121)
SPARKS 774 6200S {DLF,IEF} (P42737848)
KCF BENNETT RED HOUSE S330 {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42763158)
STAR L3 GERBER VISION 053 {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42811435)
DR MRF COMPLETE 774 UR04 ET {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42905254)
MC 774 DOMINO U886 ET {DLF,IEF} (P42923022)
R&R 774 NAVIGATOR 009K 8152 ET {DLF,IEF} (P42942167)
CMR TF 242 GARRETT 430 (P42563522)
BAR JZ LEGENDARY 819T {DLF,IEF} (P42798575)
SHF PROGRESS P20 {CHB,DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42481042)
MSU TCF SAGINAW 5S {CHB,DLF,IEF} (P42709405)
EF F745 FRANK P230 {CHB} (P42528669)
LFF CHESTER P230 OF S1 {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42886583)
BOYD WORLDWIDE 9050 ET {DLF,HYF,IEF} (P42982024)

And many many more

Success inevitably leads to jealousy and criticism (both justifiable and fantasy.......see any CAB discussion here). That a few aging old codgers still harbor some bizarre grudge about something that may or may not have occurred over 30 years ago, apparently isn't hurting semen sales any.

 

[Hereford76]

deleted - sorry

 

[Herefords.US]

deleted - sorry

You mean you really didn't want to start another polled/horned debate? :clap: :clap:

George