Feeding Females

[angus9259]

It seems to me there are a number of potential feed requirements in the "female" category

1. Open young heifers
2. Cows with calves
3. Heifers with calves
5. Dry bred cows
6. Dry bred heifers

How many of you split the females based on feed requirements? Where are your splits? If you don't split do you find yourself overfeeding one group (higher than necessary costs) or underfeeding another group? Or do you simply not see that much difference in feed requirements?

Normally I sell all my heifers and buy mature replacement cows so I don't have to "split manage" but this year I bought some bred heifers that have just calved and have some weaned heifers I may retain.

Thanks.

 

[dun]

Until now we've alwasy just spring calved. Retained heifers after a 45 day weaning period are turned in with the cow herd and stay there till they die. If we have a late spring growth of grass we'll feed hay for a couple of weeks starting just before calving and until the grass gets going good.

 

[TexasBred]

Feeding never has been an "exact science". Watch body condition and growth patterns. The should all grow well as one group. The ones that don't are the ones you'll definitely want to put on the "remove" list.

 

[shaz]

Speaking of dry bred heifers - If they're 3 months from calving and their growth has not been good what is the best bet for added nutrition?

Protein blocks?

 

[angus9259]

Speaking of dry bred heifers - If they're 3 months from calving and their growth has not been good what is the best bet for added nutrition?

Protein blocks?

I've not experienced protein tubs do much for added growth. I think they help the digestive system compensate some for lower quality roughage. I have my bred and 1st calving heifers on 2nd cutting alfalfa which is why I separate them from the dry cows. Dry cows don't need that. However, responses so far on this post indicate the bred heifers may not either it seems. Still thinking . . . .

 

[TexasBred]

Speaking of dry bred heifers - If they're 3 months from calving and their growth has not been good what is the best bet for added nutrition?

Protein blocks?

I've not experienced protein tubs do much for added growth. I think they help the digestive system compensate some for lower quality roughage. I have my bred and 1st calving heifers on 2nd cutting alfalfa which is why I separate them from the dry cows. Dry cows don't need that. However, responses so far on this post indicate the bred heifers may not either it seems. Still thinking . . . .

Alfalfa is not good for cattle that are late in gestation as it is high in calcium and could lead to an occasionally case of milk fever and if it's high quality it's just typically much more crude protein than they need unless you limit feed the alfalfa and make grass hay available to fill up on.

 

[novaman]

Alfalfa is not good for cattle that are late in gestation as it is high in calcium and could lead to an occasionally case of milk fever and if it's high quality it's just typically much more crude protein than they need unless you limit feed the alfalfa and make grass hay available to fill up on.

To add to this, high protein levels in late gestation can result in bigger calves at birth = more calving difficulties. The calf is growing rapidly in the last trimester and added protein aids in that growth. Don't cut down on all the protein as they need a happy medium to develop a healthy calf and produce good quality colostrum.

 

[TexasBred]

Good grass hay should be more than adequate.

 

[angus9259]

To add to this, high protein levels in late gestation can result in bigger calves at birth = more calving difficulties. The calf is growing rapidly in the last trimester and added protein aids in that growth. Don't cut down on all the protein as they need a happy medium to develop a healthy calf and produce good quality colostrum.

Good information - very helpful for me. That said, I've come to understand and believe the above statement is part true - part myth. The part that's true is that if you feed better in late term the calf will be bigger. The part that's myth is that that will actually lead to LESS calving problems. All evidence I've seen (clinical, not my own) says there is actually a significant DROP in dystocia when bred cows are fed better in late term not only are the mommas better off, the babies respond more quickly.

 

[TexasBred]

All evidence I've seen (clinical, not my own) says there is actually a significant DROP in dystocia when bred cows are fed better in late term not only are the mommas better off, the babies respond more quickly.

Feeding "better" as well as overall herd health is much much more than simply increasing the crude protein level in the diet.

 

[1982vett]

Shaz, in considereing everything...........you still need to take a good look the heifers themselves. If they are straying to far from the expected path they may need to find the path that leads down the road. May be a case of when to pay the piper, now or later.

All evidence I've seen (clinical, not my own) says there is actually a significant DROP in dystocia when bred cows are fed better in late term not only are the mommas better off, the babies respond more quickly.

Feeding "better" as well as overall herd health is much much more than simply increasing the crude protein level in the diet.

Angus9259, that stood out when I read it too.... I think the ways to manage cow nutrition and heifer nutrition don't really meet till a couple months after the heifer weans her first calf. So you have to weigh what someone recommends for cows differently when applied to heifers.

 

[angus9259]

So, by and large, what I'm gathering is that for the respondents thus far, there's minimal nutritional requirement differences between cows with calves, 1st calf heifers, bred heifers, bred cows, open heifers . . . etc . . . One pen, one feed.

 

[novaman]

So, by and large, what I'm gathering is that for the respondents thus far, there's minimal nutritional requirement differences between cows with calves, 1st calf heifers, bred heifers, bred cows, open heifers . . . etc . . . One pen, one feed.

Not for me. Bred heifers are fed separate from the cows because heifers are often at the bottom of the pole and get pushed around alot. While I do tend to give the bred heifers the better hay it is more the fact that they don't have to fight to get to it. Open heifers also separate because they are given some grain to get them gentle. Everything else gets put into one group.

 

[TexasBred]

So, by and large, what I'm gathering is that for the respondents thus far, there's minimal nutritional requirement differences between cows with calves, 1st calf heifers, bred heifers, bred cows, open heifers . . . etc . . . One pen, one feed.

Not for me. Bred heifers are fed separate from the cows because heifers are often at the bottom of the pole and get pushed around alot. While I do tend to give the bred heifers the better hay it is more the fact that they don't have to fight to get to it. Open heifers also separate because they are given some grain to get them gentle. Everything else gets put into one group.

But you're feeding dairy cattle..right?? Much different program with different objectives. A happy medium can be found for beef cattle which will typically fall into the range of needs of all cattle within the herd unless you have the needed separate pastures and feeding capabilities to feed each according to their status. It can certainly be done but does it pay off?

 

[novaman]

But you're feeding dairy cattle..right?? Much different program with different objectives. A happy medium can be found for beef cattle which will typically fall into the range of needs of all cattle within the herd unless you have the needed separate pastures and feeding capabilities to feed each according to their status. It can certainly be done but does it pay off?

Sorry I meant on the beef herd, should have clarified. I think it pays to keep them separate but than I have the setup for it.

 

[angus9259]

I have the setup as well. Presently here's my situation

Pasture 1 - dry cows - mature stage grass hay
Pasture 2 - mature cows w/calves - early cut grass hay
Pasture 3 - heifers calving and with calves at side and replacements - 1st and 2nd cutting alfalfa

All get the same treatment otherwise - vaccines, mineral, tubs, etc

My intention is to run them this way until I turn the bull out in a couple months. That said, it is kind of a pain keeping them separate. But I do want to maintain condition on all the cows going into the winter and maximize opportunity for rebreeding.

Is it necessary and is it worth it . . .

 

[shaz]

Good grass hay should be more than adequate.

I still have plenty of pasture but no fall growth due to drought. The hay is Johnson grass at various stages of maturity so I wouldn't be real confident of the quality.

Thanks

 

[TexasBred]

But you're feeding dairy cattle..right?? Much different program with different objectives. A happy medium can be found for beef cattle which will typically fall into the range of needs of all cattle within the herd unless you have the needed separate pastures and feeding capabilities to feed each according to their status. It can certainly be done but does it pay off?

Sorry I meant on the beef herd, should have clarified. I think it pays to keep them separate but than I have the setup for it.

Exactly...but most don't.

 

[TexasBred]

I have the setup as well. Presently here's my situation

Pasture 1 - dry cows - mature stage grass hay
Pasture 2 - mature cows w/calves - early cut grass hay
Pasture 3 - heifers calving and with calves at side and replacements - 1st and 2nd cutting alfalfa

All get the same treatment otherwise - vaccines, mineral, tubs, etc

My intention is to run them this way until I turn the bull out in a couple months. That said, it is kind of a pain keeping them separate. But I do want to maintain condition on all the cows going into the winter and maximize opportunity for rebreeding.

Is it necessary and is it worth it . . .

Angus looks like you do have the pasture and you make the time so yes I'd say it's worth it.

 

[Angus Cowman]

cows with calves good pasture and good hay and Rye Baleage

1st calvers with calves good pasture and best hay and rye baleage usually 3-4lbs of 20% cubes 2-3 times per week

replacement hfrs being bred good pasture and best hay no baleage along with 2-3 lbs of 20% cubes once a week mainly just to keep them checked

bred cows pasture and hay

I fall calve mainly so my cows go thru the winter with calves and I breed from Nov to Jan so the pairs and the first calvers are feed all the hay the will eat while calving and then turned out to stockpiled fescue til it runs out then back on the hay again
I beleive that a first calver needs more supplementation than a 4 or 5 yr old cow