I have four angus/simmetal steer calves, 5mnths old, 400-500lbs, still nursing. My plan is to take them up to around 1200lbs for butchering. I started them on a all you can eat creep feed two months ago. I was wondering if this is beneficial or can I just switch to cracked corn? Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks, Brandon
Feeding Calves
- Thread starter BrandonC
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BrandonC":1i70og5e said:
They are old enough now, but I wouldn't recommend an all you can eat buffet. Start them out at 1-2% of their body weight and increase gradually from there til they are at 25 lbs or so once a day. It takes a while for the bacteria in their rumens to be able to handle the corn. Overload them and you are looking at a good case of acidosis.
I feed cracked/flaked/whole corn in a barley/calf starter mix to bottle calves as soon as they'll take it. Yours are plenty old enough.
I've seen one dairy that fed weaned calves grain free-choice and they seemed to do fine. I'd guess as long as the calves are accustomed to the free choice and are used to limiting themselves, it works fine. Where your calves have been fed this way for two months they're evidently doing alright.
Now...my opinion is that if they're on the cow, don't bother feeding them grain until they're bigger unless you have a time limit. The amount of feed you're going to put into those calves between now and 1200lbs is incredible if you're feeding free-choice grain. And they don't need it if they're on the cow. They'll get to 1200lbs eventually; might take 'em a few months longer than if you gave them grain, but it'll be cheaper in the long run.
This is great advice, I appreciate it. So, it is okay to take them off the grain completely until they're off their mother? I didn't know if that would hurt them or not. The mothers are great milkers. I only have four cows with more than enough pasture and hay, so they do great.
BrandonC":8uwkm39t said:
Hurt them? I'm thinking not. They're beef calves... As one fellow on the forum put it, "...raise 'em on fescue and rocks". :lol: But even the pair of twin holstein calves I have (350lbs or so) don't get grain. They're on a cow, and they eat hay at the feed bunk with her, and they don't need more than that. If my holstein calves can do fine like that, your beef calves certainly don't need grain. To be honest, at 500lbs and 5 months of age they'd prolly be fine even without the cow.
I agree with msscamp on the grain too... sudden feed changes really mess them up. Slowly increase the grain, slowly decrease the grain, just a few pounds per head per week, no more, and you shouldn't have problems.
Thanks again! I don't know why I worry so much. Actually, it's 473lbs at 4mnths/3weeks, but thats the great thing about Iowa. I'm new to this, but I guess I have good cows. Last year's steers got to 1240lbs in 14mnths with only cracked corn the last two months of their lives and that was only 15lbs avg./day. This year I did the creep feed and thought maybe I messed them up. I'm going back to last year's plan with your advice. Maybe I was getting a little too greedy with them.
Bama
Well-known member
Speaking of feeding one out has anyone ever given a beer a day to one being fed out. I ate a steak off of one that had been fed that way. At the end it was just plain corn and 1 beer per day in the corn. Also that cow only had room to stand up and lay down. I don't plain on going that far but I am considering the beer a day thing. Anyone had any experiences with that.
Bama":2suhhohs said:
No, have never done the beer a day thing with finishing cattle, but I've got a major problem with this particular practice. To me it's cruel and I will not purchase or eat veal because of it. I'm not coming down on you, Bama, please don't think I am, but this practice just makes me so angry! I firmly believe there are certain ethical and moral obligations to raising food animals and this practice violates all of them.
Bama
Well-known member
Bama":zxkgyou8 said:
No, I ain't planning on just giving it enough room to only lay down. Mine will be in a 12 x 12 stable. I am considering the beer a day thing though. That steak I had was from a old cow that was past her prime. But I will add it was one of the best I have ever eaten. If the guy hadn't told me I would have thought it was a much younger cow by the taste.
Bama
Well-known member
I don't know if they will drink the beer. I plan on pouring it on the corn that way they will be eating a beer.(?) I have more research to do before commiting to the idea though.
DiamondSCattleCo
Well-known member
Brandon, I generally agree with most things that MSS and Milkmaid say, but in this case, I disagree. I'd leave the calves on your creep feed, but maybe gradually switch to something cheaper. In my area, whole oats is the choice of creep feed.
I've fed beef animals both ways (with and without creep) and will never go back to non-creep. What I have found is that its far more efficient to stuff the feed directly into the calf than it is to pass it through the mother first. Overall feed consumption within the herd will be lower if the calves are creep fed, plus you get the added benefit of more weight gains.
There are other benefits as well. You've got lots of pasture and hay, so this isn't a major concern for you, but how are your cows handling the load? I don't know what kind of grass you have, but is it fairly dry? Or are they on hay right now? I noticed that my heaviest milking cows, when coming in off of pasture with big calves at foot, were never in as good a shape as they could have been. We're wet up here most summers, and the grass doesn't have quite enough to keep up BCS when the calves aren't supplemented. Put the calves on creep, the cows do better, herd health is better.
Rod
I've fed beef animals both ways (with and without creep) and will never go back to non-creep. What I have found is that its far more efficient to stuff the feed directly into the calf than it is to pass it through the mother first. Overall feed consumption within the herd will be lower if the calves are creep fed, plus you get the added benefit of more weight gains.
There are other benefits as well. You've got lots of pasture and hay, so this isn't a major concern for you, but how are your cows handling the load? I don't know what kind of grass you have, but is it fairly dry? Or are they on hay right now? I noticed that my heaviest milking cows, when coming in off of pasture with big calves at foot, were never in as good a shape as they could have been. We're wet up here most summers, and the grass doesn't have quite enough to keep up BCS when the calves aren't supplemented. Put the calves on creep, the cows do better, herd health is better.
Rod
Rod,
If I keep them on creep feed, should I wean them? Last year's calves I let self wean and then put the calves on full feed for the last couple of months. I see what you are saying about feeding the calves instead of the mothers, but I hardly give them any grain anyway. I'm looking at cost instead of time; how much quicker do you think they would reach 1250lbs if I go this route? Thanks for another way of thinking about this.
Brandon
If I keep them on creep feed, should I wean them? Last year's calves I let self wean and then put the calves on full feed for the last couple of months. I see what you are saying about feeding the calves instead of the mothers, but I hardly give them any grain anyway. I'm looking at cost instead of time; how much quicker do you think they would reach 1250lbs if I go this route? Thanks for another way of thinking about this.
Brandon
DiamondSCattleCo
Well-known member
I wean between 5 and 6 months of age. I just play it by ear. If I see a couple slightly smaller animals who don't appear to be quite as growthy as they should be, then I hold the herd together for a couple more weeks. It may not do much, but it helps to not make me feel so cruel
As far as how much more quickly you'll get them fed out, its a tough call for me, as I don't know your area, forage, or supplement. My experience with my smaller framed Angus and roans (1200 lb cows) is that I will get 120 lbs more calf at weaning when creep feeding oats. Other guys with larger framed animals swear they're gettting 160-180lbs more calf. My average consumption is around 40 bushels of oats per calf for the summer. When I do wean, I don't see the growth hit as badly, since they're already eating good. That 120 lbs more calf carries through the winter, and with the reduced hit at weaning, I think I've got another 20 - 30 lbs more calf again. In -40, its easier to put weight on a bigger calf than a small one, so I'm getting some gain there too, but no idea how much. I'd be looking at my critters feeding out about 2 months earlier than if they didn't get creep fed.
These numbers are hardly scientific, as there may be a pile of variables in there that were unaccounted for in my records. I've always wanted to split the herd in half, creep feed one set of calves and not creep another set, just to see what I ended up with.
So given that you allowed them to wean themselves, you never got the growth hit that you'd normally see. So thats a wash.
Since your calves hit 1250 in 14 months, and I'll guess at 100 lb birth weights, you're getting 82 lbs/month growth. So if you get 120 lbs more calf at weaning, you should be shaving 1.5 months minimum off your total feeding time.
Rod
As far as how much more quickly you'll get them fed out, its a tough call for me, as I don't know your area, forage, or supplement. My experience with my smaller framed Angus and roans (1200 lb cows) is that I will get 120 lbs more calf at weaning when creep feeding oats. Other guys with larger framed animals swear they're gettting 160-180lbs more calf. My average consumption is around 40 bushels of oats per calf for the summer. When I do wean, I don't see the growth hit as badly, since they're already eating good. That 120 lbs more calf carries through the winter, and with the reduced hit at weaning, I think I've got another 20 - 30 lbs more calf again. In -40, its easier to put weight on a bigger calf than a small one, so I'm getting some gain there too, but no idea how much. I'd be looking at my critters feeding out about 2 months earlier than if they didn't get creep fed.
These numbers are hardly scientific, as there may be a pile of variables in there that were unaccounted for in my records. I've always wanted to split the herd in half, creep feed one set of calves and not creep another set, just to see what I ended up with.
So given that you allowed them to wean themselves, you never got the growth hit that you'd normally see. So thats a wash.
Since your calves hit 1250 in 14 months, and I'll guess at 100 lb birth weights, you're getting 82 lbs/month growth. So if you get 120 lbs more calf at weaning, you should be shaving 1.5 months minimum off your total feeding time.
Rod
Rod - I won't deny that the calves will grow better and quicker on creep feed. Complete agreement there. My point is simply that the amount of feed you'd have to put into the calves and the cost of the feed may not be worth it unless you have a time limit that you need or want the calves to be finished in.
I have a heifer here that I set a goal for last spring. 800lbs and bred by 1 year of age. I'm almost there. Have her out with the 1600lb nurse cows right now, and comparing them, she might well be a 1,000lbs and she's not a year yet. BUT - the amount of feed I've put into that calf! :shock: Grain at 2% of her body weight since weaning (300lbs). And the cost? :shock: Is it worth it to me? -yes, but I needed her to get to that size as early as possible.
To be honest, from an economical standpoint, if a person doesn't NEED the calves to finish by "X" age, they're better off letting 'em grow just a little slower. All calves grow up eventually. And by not graining them until they're older, they'll be a lot cheaper to raise.
I have a heifer here that I set a goal for last spring. 800lbs and bred by 1 year of age. I'm almost there. Have her out with the 1600lb nurse cows right now, and comparing them, she might well be a 1,000lbs and she's not a year yet. BUT - the amount of feed I've put into that calf! :shock: Grain at 2% of her body weight since weaning (300lbs). And the cost? :shock: Is it worth it to me? -yes, but I needed her to get to that size as early as possible.
To be honest, from an economical standpoint, if a person doesn't NEED the calves to finish by "X" age, they're better off letting 'em grow just a little slower. All calves grow up eventually. And by not graining them until they're older, they'll be a lot cheaper to raise.
DiamondSCattleCo
Well-known member
milkmaid":120z059q said:
Yep, I understand
Sometimes my wording sucks, but what I was trying to get at is that in my area, given all the costs, I feel its more economical for me to get those calves fed and punted out the door. My $/lb of calf is cheaper.Rough numbers: 40 bushels of oats in the summer costs me about 80 bucks in a bad year. In a good year, it costs me $25. Average is about a buck a bushel, so $40. To keep a calf around here during the winter, I've figured on about $30/mo - that covers everything from the actual feed consumed to my business phone bills. So if I ship em 2 months earlier, I've saved 60 bucks in costs, plus gotten the benefit of having my cows coming in off of pasture in better condition and overall improved herd health. Or, if I decide not to ship em earlier, I'll be shipping 150 pounds more calf that I only had to pay an additional 40 bucks for (or 80 in a bad year). Even if I'm only getting 50 cents/lb thats $35 profit (or -$5 in a bad year, which I still think is worth it for my girls to come in from pasture lookin like prizes) in my pocket for very little extra work.
In Brandon's area, his mileage may vary and its likely much better for him to talk to a few locals, and maybe his ag rep and see what others have reported. Or he can give it a try for a year, work the numbers and see how he made out. If it cost him more, then he can go back to his old way. But I think it would be valuable for him to continue with his current experiment, just to gain the knowledge and insight.
On your 300 pound heifer that you're feeding, I feel your pain. Its odd, and doesn't make much sense, but it seems like when an animal is weaned early or lighter than 500 pounds, it takes an in-ordinate amount of feed to get that critter to catch up to the rest. I weaned a couple late calves at about 350 lbs with the rest of the herd this year, and they're still only 5 weights while the rest are packing 8-900 lbs.
Rod
