Feeder steer situation

[Aaron]

So I am in the process of vaccinating my backgrounders yesterday and will finish up today. One problem I ran into were two steer calves that I bought in a local pre-sort protocol sale that both have belly nuts. Now one of the stipulations to this presort protocol sale is that the bulls must be castrated at least 3 weeks prior to the sale. Anybody have a similar experience like this? I got a lot of flack from organizers of this sale, wondering why I wouldn't consign cattle and why I questioned their 'devine' sale. Mandatory use of live vaccines and a lack of supervision over the cattle coming in were my two big complaints. These two bulls just proved my point.

Curious as to similar experiences on how I should go about releasing frustration on the organizers? Ask for compensation? They tried to make me feel like an idiot for asking questions, so I would like to send them back with their tails between their legs. :cowboy:

 

[bigbull338]

you have to deal with those 2 calves.i see nothing you can do other than quit buying from that sale.if i bought there again.id have it understood that i can turn down cattle like that before i load them on the trailer.

 

[Howdyjabo]

I just expect it as part and parcel of buying calves.
Seems that you should be mad at the idiot that can't count to two, not the sale managers.

Ask nicely if they will address the issue as you didn't get what you paid for . they might be able to go back on the seller for misrepresentation of the animals.

Other choice suck it up, cut your losses and go digging-

 

[Aaron]

I just expect it as part and parcel of buying calves.
Seems that you should be mad at the idiot that can't count to two, not the sale managers.

Ask nicely if they will address the issue as you didn't get what you paid for . they might be able to go back on the seller for misrepresentation of the animals.

Other choice suck it up, cut your losses and go digging-

Don't worry, I am mad at both.

Just looking for similar situations. I expect this as part and parcel of buying calves in a regular calf sale, as I have done before. Protocol pre-sort sales are big thing in Canada. It is the guarantee of dehorned, castrated, (sometimes bunk-broke), live-vaccinated calves that make a protocol sale. Perhaps no one on here has run into this situation on 'protocol' calves.

As a guarantee, I would assume that each of the steer calves would have been run through the chute at the yard and checked for testicles, or have a fieldman that checks the calves at the consigning farms. I am thinking that they aren't as serious about this protocol sale as some are up here. In some protocol sales, you can only join and sell if you have references to back up your management.

I won't go digging on these calves. These are true belly nuts and need a sedative, scalpel and stitching up. Not going to happen in -30F in our open chute. Plus a $300 vet bill for each calf is not in the financial 'profit' cards. :cowboy:

 

[dun]

Our marketing group gaurantees all steers are nutless and all heifers are open. $100 penalty to the producer that markets a stag or a bred heifer

 

[Aaron]

Just to update. Have been in contact with certain people involved in the sale. As of right now, it sounds like I may be financially compensated for the castration of these animals. :cowboy:

 

[fargus]

What dun said. Aaron, I know Jeff was involved in getting that sale going, and he got a copy of our sale protocol from down here. We don't have fieldmen check the cattle, but there is a horn tax and a nut tax. Each calf going through the sale has a unique management tag, so if there is a verified complaint that can be applied to the guilty cow/calf producer. Glad to hear you are getting some compensation. These sales only work long-term if the club running them remains committed to keeping the quality of cattle going through the ring consistently high.

 

[Howdyjabo]

If you were closer I'd just buy them off of you.
Do it all the time and it costs no wheres near $300 even factoring in setback.

 

[Aaron]

What dun said. Aaron, I know Jeff was involved in getting that sale going, and he got a copy of our sale protocol from down here. We don't have fieldmen check the cattle, but there is a horn tax and a nut tax. Each calf going through the sale has a unique management tag, so if there is a verified complaint that can be applied to the guilty cow/calf producer. Glad to hear you are getting some compensation. These sales only work long-term if the club running them remains committed to keeping the quality of cattle going through the ring consistently high.

I am going to talk to Clay (Barn Manager) next week about it. He is in charge of the sale along with a couple others and can make a decision then. The lady who is looking after the management tags (Jeff's old job) told me that the fellow who owned the calves is an older man and had trouble castrating these calves. For me, that throws off alarm bells that these calves should have been checked even if nothing else had been.

'These sales only work long-term if the club running them remains committed to keeping the quality of cattle going through the ring consistently high.' That is my thought as well. They think I am miffed....the should move quick at tracking down the buyer of the other 20 steers in that lot that probably are still intact as well.

If you were closer I'd just buy them off of you.
Do it all the time and it costs no wheres near $300 even factoring in setback.

I have a neighbour that would like a bull raised for meat, so I might get rid of one that way.

Our local vet situation is very different from anyone else on this board. We have no large animal vet within 200 miles. A locum comes in for 2-4 days, once a month. The travel costs alone to come for a call to our place, from the workplace of the locum, would be about $120. That's the main reason why there are a few appointed 'vets' in our area. Dad was one and I am the successor. But I have cut testicles off 600 + lbers before (these calves are almost 800), and it's not a fun situation (bleeding out is a real concern). :cowboy:

 

[jack1234]

Since I'm a lurker on here with no reputation to worry about I'll go ahead and tell you straight up: You'd be best off long-term to tread lightly. These sale barn guys have thousands of cattle come through and really don't feel it's a major deal if two steers weren't completely castrated. As others have said, it comes with the territory. You might be able to raise cain, get refunded some $$, and feel real good about winning a battle...

But ultimately, if you're not professional about it, you'll be losing the war because your reputation will pay the price. Seems like if you're in a locale that doesn't have a large animal vet w/in 200 miles, you need all the friends you can keep. You're probably more beholden to the sale barn folks than they are to you.

I appreciate your philosophy on keeping wintering costs low by feeding round bales in the field. It's truly spot on. However, human relations is the other half of the battle. And it doesn't come naturally to all of us. Whether you realize it or not, it seems by your tone that you're in the process of burning some bridges. I wish I could find the link, but I read an article about an old-time order-buyer... his number one rule for success? to never speak ill of another man's cattle. Point being, success in business (here, the cattle industry) is as much about people and relationships as it is dollars and cents.

Hope all works out well.

 

[Aaron]

Since I'm a lurker on here with no reputation to worry about I'll go ahead and tell you straight up: You'd be best off long-term to tread lightly. These sale barn guys have thousands of cattle come through and really don't feel it's a major deal if two steers weren't completely castrated. As others have said, it comes with the territory. You might be able to raise cain, get refunded some $$, and feel real good about winning a battle...

But ultimately, if you're not professional about it, you'll be losing the war because your reputation will pay the price. Seems like if you're in a locale that doesn't have a large animal vet w/in 200 miles, you need all the friends you can keep. You're probably more beholden to the sale barn folks than they are to you.

I appreciate your philosophy on keeping wintering costs low by feeding round bales in the field. It's truly spot on. However, human relations is the other half of the battle. And it doesn't come naturally to all of us. Whether you realize it or not, it seems by your tone that you're in the process of burning some bridges. I wish I could find the link, but I read an article about an old-time order-buyer... his number one rule for success? to never speak ill of another man's cattle. Point being, success in business (here, the cattle industry) is as much about people and relationships as it is dollars and cents.

Hope all works out well.

Our local barn where I sell and buy my feeders is owned by the producers of our area (including myself) as members through our district/county association. We only sell about 5000 head a year in 4 sales.

It's not so much about burning bridges. I talk honest, frank and firm and don't sell myself or anyone else short. Most understand and respect that. If there is a bridge selected for demolition, I let it be known. One neighbour wanted me to go on a tangent with it, but I didn't. I don't want to damage their sale's reputation. But I did buy these two calves with the knowledge they were steers and want there to be some accountability.

Anyways, UPDATE: Talked to the sales manager and he was quite ashamed of the fact that these stags were sold as guaranteed steers and is going to make it right. I gave him some options and the one he chose was to have the vet cut both and send the sales barn the bill. He is going to contact the vet and arrange the agreement with him. :cowboy:

 

[xbred]

i have more of an issue with vaccinations...i have a neighbor who will give calves blackleg at 3 months and tell everybody his calves are "vaccinated"....once he was pressed to vaccinate a load and he run 'em through the chute hitting about every third one in the a$$ with the same needle and called them vaccinated...

 

[fargus]

That'll show up quick. With the guys doing the MLV scheme throughout the herd (Cows, bulls, bred heifers and calves) the mortality and morbidity rates in the feedlot drop to WELL below industry average, and response to treatment is much higher. (No repeat treaters, the goal is to eliminate Persistently Infected cattle from the herd.) If you aren't getting that, I suggest either the management of the feedlot is sub-par, or the cow-calf man isn't doing his job vaccinating well. Even in a pre-sort sale integrity is worth a lot.