Feed Efficiency

[3waycross]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6hSQMz8hyo

Some numbers to go with the theories!

 

[medicinewoman]

Thanks 3way,

Informative but I’m not sure I agree with their numbers without a clear definition of “ forage intake“.
MW

 

[3waycross]

Thanks 3way,

Informative but I’m not sure I agree with their numbers without a clear definition of “ forage intake“.
MW

Well they showed you exactly how they arrived at those numbers what's the mystery. The weighed the hay!

 

[medicinewoman]

3way,

You are kidding me, right?

Those numbers are so blatantly false it isn’t even funny.

First off, cow efficiency has already been studied to death and the accepted industry standard for intake is:
On average a 1,000 lb cow will consume 60 lbs of forage per day and consume an average of 30 gal of water per day to maintain a proper body condition and produce a healthy and viable calf.

If the daily average of 60 lbs of forage is not available then supplemental feeding ( feeding of hay or other ) should occur or body condition will decline in both the cow and calf and could result in death of one or both.

How he is getting down to 30.1 lbs of forage per day for #709 and #424 at 24.1 lbs forage per day is beyond my comprehension.
Both are far below that which is required for a cow of their weight.
That is not even enough to keep a cow alive let alone produce a calf.

As I see it, he is only measuring what supplemental feeding (hay ) is being done and not the cows total intake of both pasture foraging, as shown in the video, and supplemental feeding.

Respectfully
MW

 

[CottageFarm]

Uh...huh...
'Cause we all know that a they (the University) wouldn't possibly have any clue about how to do a CONTROLLED STUDY !!!!! ?????
:roll:

 

[3waycross]

3way,

You are kidding me, right?

Those numbers are so blatantly false it isn’t even funny.

First off, cow efficiency has already been studied to death and the accepted industry standard for intake is:
On average a 1,000 lb cow will consume 60 lbs of forage per day and consume an average of 30 gal of water per day to maintain a proper body condition and produce a healthy and viable calf.

If the daily average of 60 lbs of forage is not available then supplemental feeding ( feeding of hay or other ) should occur or body condition will decline in both the cow and calf and could result in death of one or both.

How he is getting down to 30.1 lbs of forage per day for #709 and #424 at 24.1 lbs forage per day is beyond my comprehension.
Both are far below that which is required for a cow of their weight.
That is not even enough to keep a cow alive let alone produce a calf.

As I see it, he is only measuring what supplemental feeding (hay ) is being done and not the cows total intake of both pasture foraging, as shown in the video, and supplemental feeding.

Respectfully
MW

Welcome back and in perfect form! of course the college has no clue and you do. :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: go harass someone else!

 

[SSGenetics]

Don't bother with him 3way....

He's talking to himself over on the bloat thread.... Must be a sad existence!! :cry2: :lol2:

 

[Stocker Steve]

How he is getting down to 30.1 lbs of forage per day for #709 and #424 at 24.1 lbs forage per day is beyond my comprehension.
Both are far below that which is required for a cow of their weight.
That is not even enough to keep a cow alive let alone produce a calf.

As I see it, he is only measuring what supplemental feeding (hay ) is being done and not the cows total intake of both pasture foraging, as shown in the video, and supplemental feeding.

Looked like late lactation cows with good condition during nice weather and zero forage waste. So I took it as labratory forage intake with most of the noise filtered out.
Minnesota winter feed usage including bale grazing waste is a lot more than 2% of BW but we cann't blame that on the cow...

 

[Banjo]

Kit Pharo sent that out with his update this week. I wish they would have done a little more contrasting comparison with say a 1400# cow vs. a 1100 or 1200# cow.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Kit Pharo sent that out with his update this week. I wish they would have done a little more contrasting comparison with say a 1400# cow vs. a 1100 or 1200# cow.

You shouldn't have to wait very long for that. :nod:

 

[Stocker Steve]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6hSQMz8hyo

Some numbers to go with the theories!

My question is how will they apply the data?
Maybe I am looking in the wrong semen catalogs - - but almost all the Angus bulls are high growth and project more (not less) cow energy needed if you save back replacements...
I looked at my first calvers this week. One (Allie) looks pretty rough but she has the biggest calf. We'll see at preg check time.

 

[KHereford]

medicinewoman where are you getting your numbers? I have never heard of 60lbs for maintenance. I and everyone I know around here ( northeast Kansas) figure 30lbs per day when feeding a cow. It depends on where they are at in the productive cycle of the year when figuring the quality of forage. I ran 12 mature cows in a dry lot last winter and put out one round bale, 1100lbs, every third day (30.5lbs per hd per day) of year and two year old brome and they came through the winter in the best condition Ive ever had. These were dry cows and we had a good winter but the number match up with the test.

 

[pdfangus]

numbers....

first an article on feeding requirements

http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/400/400-012/400-012.html

then NRC feeding standards table for mature beef cows

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=9791&page=110

 

[Banjo]

I remember the days before round bales came along that we used to feed square bales everyday 50to 60# bales and the rule of thumb was about a half abale a day per cow. I'm sure they could eat a whole bale but didn't need it.

 

[Bigfoot]

I had almost forgot about the old square bale days. Your right half a bale was the rule of thumb around here. If I had 40 cows I put out 10 bales in the morning, and 10 bales in the evening. Looking back on it, they waisted a lot less that way, but it was hard work putting up the hay.

 

[medicinewoman]

KHereford

Re:

where are you getting your numbers?

I don’t mean to give you a history lesson and I don’t have much time, so I will try to keep it short.

The 60 lbs per day intake per cow, both dairy and beef, was generated from around the great depression to the early 80s and it became the industry standard.
It was developed for our dumb and uneducated farmers, and I say that with all love and compation, who were the product of our lost generation.

It is/was a nationwide utopian number to cover all possible hardships while raising a cow for a period of one year including, but not limited to, drought and/or harsh winters.
It was developed to give our dumb and uneducated farmers, again with love and compassion, a starting point to know how much pasture and/or feed stock they would need to raise on their farm to feed a cow for one year.

Those who raised more feed stock then they needed either increased their herds or sold their surplus and the term cash crop was born which opened up a whole new industry called row cropping.

The 60 lbs per day is not cast in concrete and should be adjusted for the many variables, such as geographical location and management practices.
i.e.: If your management decision is not to hold food stock for a drought or hash winter because you are not in a drought or winter area, then the 60lbs per day should be lowered.


Re:

I have never heard of 60lbs for maintenance.

I’m not surprised as it has pretty well been cast aside to % of body weight.



Re:

I ran 12 mature cows in a dry lot last winter and put out one round bale, 1100lbs, every third day (30.5lbs per hd per day)

But you did not have them on dry hay alone for the entire year did you?
Did you give them any supplemental feedstock beyond the hay, such as pasture and or salt/minerals etc during the entire proceeding year so they could store fat and vitamins/minerals for the winter while only on hay?
If so, isn’t that all part of their total yearly intake?
Doesn’t grass have a higher moisture content and nutritional value then hay and therefore have a higher weight?

I am not being critical of the study, I am just pointing out it’s flaws as do all studies.
I believe the study has value but it also has flaws and those flaws need to be discussed and understood to determine its true value.

Thanks for your post and interest
MW

 

[medicinewoman]

“ square bales “

Ah, the not so good old days for me.

The worst winter I can remember having came right behind a dry summer and hay was short.
To stretch my hay I was feeding 25 60 lb bales to 100 head.
When they had eaten all the leaves and twigs off the trees I added a 100 gal liquid protein tank to get them to spring.
Their body score dropped by 2 points but my calf crop made it just fine.

I still make 500 small square bales per year as a backup should I run short of round bales.
IMO small bales make it so much easier to control each individual cow’s intake.
I love them but they are a lot more work.

If I don’t need them I sell them to horse people the next year @ $5 and up, depending on demand.
MW

 

[Banjo]

500 x 5 well lets see that's.....about 2500 bucks.No small change, however Unless I really,really needed the monet' I think I would set on them till I did use them. I think I have about 20 or 30 left from a couple hundred I put in 3 or more years ago. 500 bales is a lot of work unless you have a lot of help, which I don't have.