Family wants to put money into my cattle. Urgent!

[1848]

Bama,

My kids learned allot of good lessons by working on a farm in the country too. They have never been afraid of work, and they have worked through high school and into college without a break. Holding to your principles and making them kids earn it, plus letting them make their own decisions (with the consequences) can be the best teaching you will ever give them... ;-) I too, would be very skeptical about adding family (other than wife & kids) or friends (do have partners though, and they are friends) to my operation, but we need to give SuperDave options, and you did. The heart can weigh heavy when everyone else is telling you don't do it!.. The decision made may not always be the best one, it just needs to be the right one.

 

[bigbull338]

heres where things go haywire with family.they expect to always make money on cattle. but the truth is you dont make that much.if thy payed you to maintain the cows it would be $200 to $300 a hd .so when the calf was sold they might clear $75 to $100 a hd. an if they kept the heifers it would cost $150 a hd to maintain a yr . scott

 

[Medic24]

here it is simplified...............


life is already complicated enough right?

why complicate it even more, with possible long term hard feelings......been there done that.... almost ten years, and a lawsuit afterwards, still don't speak, and never will.

Don't don't do it.

now your very own children are an entirely different story, makes a good lesson on how things are so expensive, and often with little or no return on your time and investment.

If they want to get a herd of their own,, help find em a place seperate from yours to rent.... let them play with it a while, then rethink your partnership, they should then have a greater understanding of what it takes to run an operation. :cboy:

 

[ollie]

Gentlemen, everything I own is my wifes' and kids'. I assumed his family in from out of town was a more distant relative. My kids "own" cows in my herd, the twins the cows wouldn't take etc. My kids know that every penny I own is theirs any time the need it. It always will be. When they slap my face with a shovel and say Ollie was sure a good fella, it'll all be theirs anyway.

 

[bigbull338]

you have got that right ollie.we work ourselves to death so the kids can have it. when we are gone. an they know they can come to us when they need something. scott

 

[jcarkie]

i have a few cows with my in-laws. they have land and i rent some by me. he keeps them in the summer and i fedd in the winter. the biggest issue is making decisions, like what bull to use. i own the bull they use him end of dicussion. i feed my father-in-laws cows but he has done so much for me it is the least i can do. we share everything and borrow from each other and help each other. you can't do that with every family but it works for me.

 

[oljim]

Some mighty good stuff being posted here...,,sure am enjoying reading all the comments and such.

Here on my place,,we've pretty involved in family dealings,,and i've been real pleased with the way things are working out. Bout the best advice i can give though,,when u're dealing with money, assets, and business stuff - is to make most everything business-like (with written agreements and all) - even with family members.

Now,,this may not make much sense to some, but we've found that this makes life lots easier and everybody seems to appreciate it,,over the long run.

Course now,,when it comes to love, caring, and such....no piece of paper is worth that,,know what i mean? 8)

 

[Rod]

I would rather go have a root canal than a partnership of such. Been there done that :stop:

 

[El_Putzo]

I do this with my son.The record keeping is a pain in the butt. Tax time is also a pain. But in my case it is worth it. My son is only 12. I'm doing it to get him established in the business. My son buys his own cattle. They stay with mine. At sale time when he recieves his check he pays me for feed only. I don't charge him for pasture improvments, med, or all the other stuff that goes along with it. No way would I do this for just anybody. The only way I would do it was at a set stocking rate. With everthing on paper.

This is how my dad does it with me and my two brothers. We are slowly buying things like machinery and stuff from him. We each own our own cattle, but we pay him pasture rent by manual labor and the use of our equipment. We also pay him for the portion of feed that our calves eat. We don't document every single hour, but it works for us.

 

[flaboy]

Never, never, never, ever, ever, ever, go into business with a relative. It is best surefired way to split up kin. Now you can lease or rent property if you set it out on paper. That way there can't be any she said he said stuff.

 

[Conagher]

I think it depends. A family arrangement with one of your kids is not necessarily the same arrangement you would make with a bother-in-law/sister. It may also depend on the individual you are dealing with. I would work an arrangement with my father-in-law long before I would with my brothers or sister.

I pay my boys (12 & 10) a $2 per hour as credit. Once they work up enough hours to get what they want, I go buy it for them. Both boys combined their credit recently and got a new ATV. With my father it was more free labor, he figured I owed it to him for room & board, just as his father did. At 12 yrs old I had to start working for other farmers/ranchers in the area to earn money to buy school cloths, etc.

Ollie's comment is interesting. My father told me just before he died, "Son, I'm leaving you the same thing my father left me, this whole wide world to make a living in." And that's just what he left me. I haven't decided yet if I will follow this family tradition.

 

[oljim]

Well stated flaboy,,about the "he said she said" stuff,,lol,,been there done that!,, 8)

I believe it's possible to do business with family members,,as long as things are throught thru and agreed to upfront,,and somebody has written down what everybody has agreed to - so people's (uh,,memories),,lol,,can be refreshed every once in a while.,,know what i mean? 8)

Course now,,as old as i am, i havta write things down. If i can remember what i did yesterday,,i'm doing purdy darn good,,lol,, 8)

However,,as lots of people know,,any kind of partnerships are tough to make work,,,and IMHO, there's likely more that fail than succeed. Of course, the risk level of making somebody mad is worth lots more when you're dealing with a relative,,than somebody down the road that you may only see every once in a while.

That feller down the road probably aint gonna show up at the family Christmas party every year so u can get ragged on by yore wife,,lol,,, ;-) ;-)

 

[flaboy]

I believe it's possible to do business with family members,,as long as things are throught thru and agreed to upfront,,and somebody has written down what everybody has agreed to - so people's (uh,,memories),,lol,,can be refreshed every once in a while.,,know what i mean? 8)

quote]

Oh I understand what you're saying. My problem with business with kin is, if you ever do have problems, kin hold a grudge longer. Plus if you loose a business partner over some disagreement who cares? If you loose kin that might be another issue.

 

[SF]

Doing business with relatives. Depends upon the relatives. My children are in a different category than all other relatives. I'll help my children with cattle or just about any other business venture. I'll do business with my parents the same way. All others, get the same treatment as any other business deal.

Caution when dealing with relatives. They usually expect more for less. That is where the problems usually begin. JMO
Greg

 

[Medic24]

I agree Sf, those that have, do, or will live under your same roof sure are alot different dealing with then the others that live away, and are not privy to your way of thinking and operating.

My wife helps, but she has a more then full time job going herself, and she certainly financially suppliments these farms .....our daughter, while she is expected to help with the lighter chores, such as calf feeding, and clean up, we don't expect her to do much more, at 12 ,she is a girlie girl, and the boss really wants to keep her that way.

Lucky I am that her family all still live in Australia, and have little interest in our operations here. :cboy:

 

[madbeancounter1]

Bama,

I do this with both my son and daughter. So far, we are still in the building stages but they are both whizzes at math and are keeping track how much Dad spends on their behalf.

On the flip side my lease is set up so that any improvements the landowner and I make to the property - fencing and so forth is split evenly and my portion pays my lease. I pay for the meds and feed and we have a ceiling. Once I reach that ceiling he starts paying 100% of improvements and for whatever his cattle eat and whatever I doctor them with. So far it's worked well. I even get free labor out of his kid because he likes to come out and help.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I think you need to understand and discuss why a partnership is good for both parties. I have some business with an uncle - - he wants to work less and I want to grow - - so it works out OK.

I also have a "steer scholarship" program with both high school aged sons. I give them freezer beef steer(s) if they handle the buyers and the processing. One son sees it as found money and does OK. The other sees it as a burden, does not do very well at managing the details, and makes it painful for all involved. I think there is a story in the Bible about this...