EasTex
Well-known member
What bull can you breed an F1 Braford to and not get horned calves?
F1 Braford polled calves
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KAstocker
Well-known member
Purebred angus or anything else homozygous polled
RockinRB
Well-known member
I think most breeds have homozygous polled animals now.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
Nothing if she is an African horn gene carrier.
Most F-1 Tiger's carry the gene. Most bull calves will end up with nubs . I have ran homozygous polled bulls for decades.
It's another gene that doesn't play by the rules like LH color as well as Char.
"
Another factor that complicates the inheritance of polledness/horns is that in cattle with Zebu ancestry, like Brahman, Santa Gertrudis and others there is an additional gene that affects the inheritance of horns. Inheritance of horns in Zebu-type cattle is different from that observed in the British breeds. The polled gene (P), and the scur gene (Sc) can both be present in American cattle with Zebu ancestry. However, another gene, the African horn gene (Af) also affects inheritance of horns in these animals. The absence of this gene is expressed by the symbol (An).
Geneticists are reasonably certain that the way the Af gene is express is dependent on the sex of the animal, much like the way scurs are expressed. In males the Af gene is dominant to the polled gene, An. This means that a single Af gene will result in a bull being horned, even if he is heterozygous or homozygous polled. In females the Af gene is recessive to the polled gene An. In heterozygous polled females two of the Af genes must be present for the animal to have horns.
In animals possessing the Af gene in addition to the polled gene (homozygous or heterozygous) the inheritance patters shown in Table 4 can be expected.
Like scurs, the presence of the African horn gene is easy to detect in males since the presence of only one Af gene results in the male having horns. Therefore, progeny testing for the Af gene in malesis unnecessary. If the bull is polled he does not possess the Af gene. If he is horned when his genetic ancestry shows that he should be polled, the reason may be that he possesses an Af gene. Cattle producers should also keep in mind that a proven homozygous bull will produce some horned calves if he is bred to horned or polled cows that carry the African horn gene.
| Table 4. African Horn Gene Inheritance Patterns | ||
| Genetic Makeup of Animal | Cows | Bulls |
| AfAfPP | Horned | Horned |
| AfAnPP | Polled | Horned |
| AnAnPP | Polled | Polled |
As you can see there are ultimately three pair of genes that may determine if cattle have horn-like tissue on their head in the form of horns or scurs"
callmefence
Keyboard cowboy
Cb nailed...
Nothing will cancel horns every time with horned brimmer's.
Nothing will cancel horns every time with horned brimmer's.
OP
OP
EasTex
Well-known member
Many thanks for the replies!
Did your F1s have horns?
Getting a naturally polled bull (any breed) may not be 100% but it will help your odds.
We have been using polled bulls for long enough that I put a horned Hereford out and still dont have horns on the calves.
Getting a naturally polled bull (any breed) may not be 100% but it will help your odds.
We have been using polled bulls for long enough that I put a horned Hereford out and still dont have horns on the calves.
OP
OP
EasTex
Well-known member
I don't have any cows yet. But I am leaning towards either F1 Braford or F1 Brangus. I want the 50% Brahman influence but don't want to deal with horns if I don't have to...Did your F1s have horns?
Getting a naturally polled bull (any breed) may not be 100% but it will help your odds.
We have been using polled bulls for long enough that I put a horned Hereford out and still dont have horns on the calves.
KAstocker
Well-known member
So has the Af gene just been bred out of brangus or are some brangus horned?
Little Joe
Well-known member
I had a registered brangus bull one time that had about 4" banana horns.
If the Brahman was polled, and surely the Hereford was polled, then breed to a registered Angus. This will be the best combo for a 3rd cross with maximum hybrid vigor. If you want to keep it 50% Brahman, ,then breed those F1 Brafords to a registered Brangus. You will get polled black calves and they will be 7/16ths Brahma, close enough to 50%.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
I would have to go back and do some research. If I remember correctly doesn't it take seven generations to breed true.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
You are correct on horns scurs can still occur.
When LSU was developing the breed I read some where after 7 generations they had them breeding true.
You should be good, especially if the F1s you buy naturally didnt have horns. In the odd case you get some it's an easy fix.
Dunno what the weather is like in your part of Texas, but, if it is hot and humid, you may want to use Angus bulls on Braford cows, rather then Hereford bulls on Brangus cows. Either cross will result in excellent calves with hybrid vigor, but, it may work better to have 100 Braford cows out there eating at noon in July, and an Angus bull lying in the creek or pond, than 100 Brangus cows laying in the water, and the Hereford bull out there grazing. Brangus are for sure more heat tolerant than Angus, but I think Brafords may be a little more. @Caustic Burno , @Brute 23 ..what do y'all think? Also, around here F1 Brafords have a reputation for being the best momma cows there is, people even say they are better than registered Brafords. Brangus cows, like Angus, can sometimes be too good of a mother, especially the first few days. Again, Caustic and Brute both have a lot of experience with Brafords and Brangus, and can probably offer better insight than I can.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
To put it simply I prefer a red cow.
I have options with a red cow by just changing the bull.
I have options with a red cow by just changing the bull.
Yup. CB and I have talked about that before.
I prefer 1/2, 3/8, 1/4 Brafords over Brangus. Yall see the pics. We have Brahman Angus Xs and baldies but I'm heading more in this direction. This little girl is where I want to be if they arent F1s or Brahmans.
The reds and tigers handle the heat and flies better.
You have to watch and breed the straight black Angus bulls in the cool months here.
OP
OP
EasTex
Well-known member
Hot and humid for sure, where I'm at!!!
Thank you all for the insight.
Thank you all for the insight.
Last week a client told me that he was going to turn his 405 acre row crop operation into cattle. He is 74, and is retiring as a contractor. This year, he is not gonna plant his 405 acres in the usual peanuts, soybeans, cotton, and corn. He has sold all of his construction equipment as well as his planters, combines, etc. He has another 95 acres across the road, where he has about 55-60 acres of it in irrigated coastal bermuda. Sold his hay equipment too...gonna let someone else do it on shares. We decided to get Braford cows instead of Brangus, due to the heat and the god-awful gnats in that part of south Ga. Figured 140 Braford cows and a few black bulls, would fare better there, than 140 Brangus cows. @Caustic Burno , @Brute 23 , I might need some help! Might need to come to Texas to buy some cows. 140 Brafords is gonna take a while to round up. We will probably be getting F1 Brahma x Herefords too, in order to get up that many. We most likely won't use Angus bulls because of the weather and insects down there, but we bought a yearling Ultrablack and a yearling Chi-Angus today. We will be getting the cows one, two, 10, 20, maybe even 30 or 40 at a time, various stages of pregnancy, open or pairs. so no need to try to cover 140 in a 45 day window. But, once we get about 40 cows, we will be adding a Brangus bull about every 40 cows. Down here, we don't sell "pot loads" of steers. You CAN try to get up a tractor trailer load of uniform type and size steers, but the sale barns are just gonna sort them the way they want to, and sell them 1 at a time any way. Down here, we wean them when we load them on the trailer to go to the sale. and no one is bringing an 18 wheeler load of calves to the sale. They bring them in 16' bumper pulls, and 24' goosenecks.
It is worth mentioning that there is nothing wrong with putting a Brangus or Braford bull on those cows. I can promise you it will make breeding a lot easier because not all Angus and Herefords will breed when it gets hot like the Brafords and Brangus will. I really question whether knocking that little bit more ear off is worth the hassle in this area.
