Explain this.

[milkmaid]

So as an update to my "OK...what are these calves missing?" post, I ordered the Multimin in, it arrived today, and I'll use it on Friday when I do the vaccinations for the calves. Got it cheaper than Valley Vet sells it for too; it was $35.50 instead of $43.

FWIW, here's what I found interesting.

This is Multimin:

Zinc, not less than 20 mg/mL
Manganese, not less than 20 mg/mL
Selenium, not less than 5 mg/mL
Copper, not less than 10 mg/mL

This is Mu-Se:
Each mL contains: 10.95 mg sodium selenite (equivalent to 5 mg selenium)

Same amounts of Selenium in each.

Now for the really interesting part.

*Mu-Se carries a 30 day slaughter withdrawal. Multimin has none.

*Mu-Se carries the labelled warning of not to use in 3rd trimester dairy cows as abortions have been noted in that class. Multimin says nothing of that.

*Mu-Se mentions that "WARNINGS Anaphylactoid reactions, some of which have been fatal, have been reported in cattle administered the MU-SE product". Multimin makes no comments about fatalities, mentioning only "CAUTION: Slight local reaction may occur for about 30 sec. after injection. A slight swelling may be observed at injection site for a few days after administration.".

V-e-r-y interesting. And the dose on Mu-Se is 1mL/200lbs body weight in calves, in Multimin it's 1mL/100lbs body weight. So it's a lower dose in Mu-Se, with all those warnings, and higher dose for Multimin, with no warning beyond "slight local reaction may occur".

Not quite sure what to make of all that. Any comments?

 

[msscamp]

The only thing I can think of would be different formulation/buffering/base product that would allow the selenium to be absorbed without becoming a problem. Perhaps something added that will do the same thing?

 

[Vicky the vet]

Well, here are my thoughts.These are not gospel.

1) MuSe is an internationally licenced product. The testing on this product was extensive, and there have been modifications to the licence and label pertaining to reactions attributed to the product. If you read the entire product monograph, you will read that "1 ml/200 lbs for PREVENTION of white muscle disease, 1 ml/100 lbs for TREATMENT of white muscle disease" but not necessarily in those exact words since I don't have it in front of me.


2) Multimin is something which apparently contains multiple vitamins and selenium, isn't internationally licenced to my knowledge, and may have not had any rigorous testing done on it, depending on when it was licenced. Frankly, I've never heard of it, which is like 60 per cent of the drugs mentioned on this website. Is it used as a supplement rather than therapy? If so, it may not have the same licencing requirements--your drug laws are incomprehensible to me...

3) If both products have the same level of selenium then they should be used at the MuSe level, not as labeled on the Multimin. The precautions should be followed as for the MuSe, as should the withdrawal on the label.

These are only my thoughts on the issue, the choice is yours.

Good Luck!
V

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Good post - very interesting. So, by what V the V says, the Multimin is prescribing "treatment" level of SE. This would be fine for our cattle - we are REALLY SE deficient - but what about areas that have TOO MUCH SE in their soils/forage???

 

[Howdyjabo]

Thats interesting--- I've never used Mu-se so never would have made that connection.

My vet reccommended it as a one time supplement for newly arrived salebarn calves at processing.

 

[milkmaid]

Thanks all!

msscamp, it's the exact same formation too; I checked that. Both are made with sodium selenite equal to 5mg/mL.

Vicky, thanks for the thoughts! The label on Multimin reads "for supplement of" - it's not labeled as for treatment, but I bet you could use it that way too. ('Course, I'd be a little reluctant as I don't know much about the zinc/copper/magnesium requirements in cows and what they're getting in our soil; wouldn't want to overdose on any of those.)

I followed your suggestion, Vicky, to dose at the Mu-Se level. I had nine 3wts to vaccinate (5-way/8-way) this morning and I dosed them all at 1mL/200lbs or just a touch under; considering as Mu-Se and Multimin are both labeled for mature beef cows and weaned (beef?) calves, which would be 600lbs+, I think. And these calves averaged 330lbs today.

Jeanne, that's one thing I don't have to worry about. :lol: We may not be quite as Se deficient as you are over there, but we are still deficient.

 

[milkmaid]

Thats interesting--- I've never used Mu-se so never would have made that connection.

My vet reccommended it as a one time supplement for newly arrived salebarn calves at processing.

What constitutes "calves" for you? and what dosage did he suggest?

Can't say as I've really used Mu-Se before either, only BoSe on occasion, but I just like studying labels and I realized the similarities when I looked over the label for Multimin. ;-)