EPD's

[johndeereboy]

I am new to the whole registered herd thing. I have 7 cows, and 3 of them have calved. How do I figure out the Epd's of the Calves?

Please help.

 

[dun]

I am new to the whole registered herd thing. I have 7 cows, and 3 of them have calved. How do I figure out the Epd's of the Calves?

Please help.

If you have EPDs on both parents and they are the same breed, the simplist way is to add the parents EPDs and divide by 2. It ain;t perfect but it's close. If one orth e other doesn;t have EPDs or they are different breeds you're pretty much SOL

dun

 

[Aero]

turn in the weights to the breed association and they will figure them for you.

 

[Alan]

I have found that adding the 2 parents and dividing by 2 doesn't work that often. Seems like by the time I get the current EPD's back from the association they are off as much as 2 to 4 numbers. It's close enough to guess but a long way from accurate. Not sure as to why the big difference, but one thought is that the sires and dams EPD's a ever changing. Or that in different EPD categories it not a 50/50 split, meaning, the dam or sire may have more enfluence in a certain area.... just a guess.

Alan

 

[MikeC]

I have found that adding the 2 parents and dividing by 2 doesn't work that often. Seems like by the time I get the current EPD's back from the association they are off as much as 2 to 4 numbers. It's close enough to guess but a long way from accurate. Not sure as to why the big difference, but one thought is that the sires and dams EPD's a ever changing. Or that in different EPD categories it not a 50/50 split, meaning, the dam or sire may have more enfluence in a certain area.... just a guess.

Alan

This method is used only as an "Interim" EPD, until a new Sire Summary is computed using all the available data.

The time lag between the computations (my breed assoc. computes twice per year) is what is making them look inaccurate or different.

 

[Aero]

I have found that adding the 2 parents and dividing by 2 doesn't work that often. Seems like by the time I get the current EPD's back from the association they are off as much as 2 to 4 numbers. It's close enough to guess but a long way from accurate. Not sure as to why the big difference, but one thought is that the sires and dams EPD's a ever changing. Or that in different EPD categories it not a 50/50 split, meaning, the dam or sire may have more enfluence in a certain area.... just a guess.

Alan

as long as it is an EPD and not an index, the average of parental EPDs will be accurate until the calf's individual performance is factored in. once the performance is input, the EPD will be adjusted with the contemporary group performance.

the Angus Association updates the individual's EPDs as soon as the records are processed. the parents' EPDs wont be updated until the next NCE run.

 

[Alan]

I have found that adding the 2 parents and dividing by 2 doesn't work that often. Seems like by the time I get the current EPD's back from the association they are off as much as 2 to 4 numbers. It's close enough to guess but a long way from accurate. Not sure as to why the big difference, but one thought is that the sires and dams EPD's a ever changing. Or that in different EPD categories it not a 50/50 split, meaning, the dam or sire may have more enfluence in a certain area.... just a guess.

Alan

This method is used only as an "Interim" EPD, until a new Sire Summary is computed using all the available data.

The time lag between the computations (my breed assoc. computes twice per year) is what is making them look inaccurate or different.

When the association computes the EPD on a calf, is it a 50/50 split between the sire and the dam or will one have more of an influence on a certain EPD?

Thanks,
Alan

 

[Aero]

When the association computes the EPD on a calf, is it a 50/50 split between the sire and the dam or will one have more of an influence on a certain EPD?

Thanks,
Alan

50/50

 

[MikeC]

When the association computes the EPD on a calf, is it a 50/50 split between the sire and the dam or will one have more of an influence on a certain EPD?

Thanks,
Alan

50/50

I agree with you Matt. But would the "Heritability" of certain traits from the Sire or Dam play a factor in the computations?

 

[Alan]

When the association computes the EPD on a calf, is it a 50/50 split between the sire and the dam or will one have more of an influence on a certain EPD?

Thanks,
Alan

50/50

I agree with you Matt. But would the "Heritability" of certain traits from the Sire or Dam play a factor in the computations?

That is what I was thinking, couldn't remember the word "heritability". I have read just enough about it to make me completely confused .... I guess all is normal. Any easy explaination of heriability?

thanks for the good responses from all.
Alan

 

[jnowack]

The reason the bw wasn't the same was either that you reported a bw when you registered the calf and they used the ratio to adjust the EPD's or that the parent's EPD's may have changed if the # you were using wasn't current.

 

[jnowack]

Alan,

Traits are infuenced by genetics, environment, and heterosis. The amount of variation in the trait that is caused by genetics is the heritability. The remainder of the variation is caused by environment or heterosis.
When animals are raised in the same environment or contemporary group, the environmental variation is eliminated and the remaining variation in traits such as ww, yw etc can attributed to the genetics of the individuals and compared using ratios that will be used in calculating the EPD's.
As for the heterosis it is minimal in purebreds, I think is just ignored. However I think they have some heterosis adjustment factors for some of the composites such as Balancers so that they can be ratioed against purebreds.

 

[Aero]

I agree with you Matt. But would the "Heritability" of certain traits from the Sire or Dam play a factor in the computations?

i am quite sure they are split evenly at least as far as the Angus assoc goes. i havent seen any convincing data showing different heritability from either sex... a few decent theories w/ mDNA, etc, but no real data.

 

[Aero]

Alan,

Traits are infuenced by genetics, environment, and heterosis. The amount of variation in the trait that is caused by genetics is the heritability. The remainder of the variation is caused by environment or heterosis.
When animals are raised in the same environment or contemporary group, the environmental variation is eliminated and the remaining variation in traits such as ww, yw etc can attributed to the genetics of the individuals and compared using ratios that will be used in calculating the EPD's.
As for the heterosis it is minimal in purebreds, I think is just ignored. However I think they have some heterosis adjustment factors for some of the composites such as Balancers so that they can be ratioed against purebreds.

there is no EPD component for variation. EPDs by nature are averages over large groups. they would need another value like Acc to express variance of the calves.

 

[jnowack]

Alan,

Traits are infuenced by genetics, environment, and heterosis. The amount of variation in the trait that is caused by genetics is the heritability. The remainder of the variation is caused by environment or heterosis.
When animals are raised in the same environment or contemporary group, the environmental variation is eliminated and the remaining variation in traits such as ww, yw etc can attributed to the genetics of the individuals and compared using ratios that will be used in calculating the EPD's.
As for the heterosis it is minimal in purebreds, I think is just ignored. However I think they have some heterosis adjustment factors for some of the composites such as Balancers so that they can be ratioed against purebreds.

there is no EPD component for variation. EPDs by nature are averages over large groups. they would need another value like Acc to express variance of the calves.

I don't think talking about the same thing. By variation, I was just referring to the difference in what the calves weighed which gives you your ratios and then the ratios are used to help calculate EPD's.

 

[johndeereboy]

so what i should do is turn the birthweight and the birthdate of the calf into the Angus Association, and they will figure it out for me?

 

[Aero]

so what i should do is turn the birthweight and the birthdate of the calf into the Angus Association, and they will figure it out for me?

as long as you have more than one calf in proper contemporary groups, they will do more than average the parents' EPDs.