E15 Fuel

[slick4591]

Being a diesel driver I don't look at the gas pump so I've never heard of E15 fuel until I ran across this warning. Sounds like it may be great advice to take due to the damage it can cause to your vehicle.

http://youtu.be/ceW9Nc1hVHU
[youtube]ceW9Nc1hVHU[/youtube]

A little more info:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/al ... 5-15096134

 

[Bigfoot]

That percentage is not much higher, than what they are pushing off on us now. Makes you wonder.

 

[Hook]

Same thing I've been saying for a while here now. The phase separation is the problem. Heck even the e10 here. There's stickers on the pumps that say to check with the marine engine manufacturer before use. Because it absorbs so much moisture it phase separates and sinks.
Of course I fully expect a certain member who grows corn to come on here and tell us all how the climate is the same in florida as it is in Minnesota and he doesn't have any issues whatsoever. Not to mention that ethanol is an alcohol that can dissolve fuel lines, injector seals and orings, and all natural rubbers

 

[ibetyamissedme]

It is difficult to believe anything this woman says when she claims ethanol lowers the octane. Nothing but propaganda ain't that right E10?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

And like clockwork here he is.

 

[John SD]

I call :bs: :bs: :bs: on E15 causing "damage" to anything. There are a lot of whiners on every side of the ethanol issue. :bang: Too much of :drink: :drink: :drink: is the surest way to cause damage from ethanol.

I would be in favor of these steps to be taken:

1. Eliminate all government subsidies for both petroleum and ethanol. Level the playing field and let each product stand or fall on it's own merits.

2. Scrap E85 if the auto makers can't/won't come up with technology to utilize it efficiency. E85 would be a very efficient fuel in an engine with high compression to utilize it. Kind of a waste the way they do it now in low compression engines. You lose both power and economy. Doesn't have to be that way.

3. Offer the consumer a choice of E0 or E30 fuel. Nothing else. Price these products at fair and true value let the customer decide between them. Most stations currently already have the ability to provide two different blends with current pump setups.

4. I find my vehicles both carbed and EFI offer optimal power/economy on E30. I would consistently purchase only E30 fuel if it were an option to me.

My :2cents: and I'll throw in another :2cents: :2cents: :2cents: just for good measure. :tiphat:

 

[Hook]

So it's your assertion that ethanol doesn't absorb moisture from the air, which in turn sinks and is drawn up first? Also, ethanol doesn't degrade natural runner compounds?

 

[ibetyamissedme]

Blind leading the blind.

 

[John SD]

So it's your assertion that ethanol doesn't absorb moisture from the air, which in turn sinks and is drawn up first? Also, ethanol doesn't degrade natural runner compounds?

Ethanol will absorb moisture from the air via condensation in a partially filled tank. Ethanol should bond with and hold the water in suspension instead of settling unless there is one heck of a lot of water present. And if you have that much water in your gas tank, you are likely to experience problems with or without ethanol.

Would not gas without ethanol be more likely to have the water settle to the bottom? Since gas and water do not mix, I think this would likely be the case.

In winter, I try to keep my tanks topped off in case I would get stuck in a snowbank out in the middle of nowhere and use up the rest of the tank before I got out. :roll:

For seasonal stuff like lawn mowers and weed eaters, running the tanks empty with a shot of Sea Foam or Sta-bil is probably the best bet.

IIRC, my bulk jobber discontinued leaded regular fuel in 1993 and delivered E10 ever since. That was 21 years ago.

Since then I've used E10 in every gas outfit on the place including'50s gas tractors, '60s-'80s carbed trucks,pickups, and cars, 1990 454 EFI pickup, 2012 Hyundai, 2013 Honda Rancher, McCulloch weed eater, Stihl chain saw, Polaris 2-stroke ATV, and several B&S engines.

In all that time using this equipment I can't say I've ever had a fuel related problem that I could pin on ethanol as the cause.

 

[Hook]

Specific gravity of ethanol is a tiny bit heavier than regular gas. Once it absorbs moisture it becomes even heavier and settles out in a matter of weeks. That's one reason it's an issue with boats, lawn equipment, chainsaws etc. In an engine that gets used regular and the fuel gets turned over on a regular basis it's not a problem. But what do I know.

 

[Hook]

Ethanol specific gravity is 0.794
Gasoline is 0.739

It's not hard to see that when an alcohol absorbs water it settles

 

[John SD]

Specific gravity of ethanol is a tiny bit heavier than regular gas. Once it absorbs moisture it becomes even heavier and settles out in a matter of weeks. That's one reason it's an issue with boats, lawn equipment, chainsaws etc. In an engine that gets used regular and the fuel gets turned over on a regular basis it's not a problem. But what do I know.

I agree excess moisture in a gas tank is a problem. My position is that water is or will be a problem with or without ethanol.

Do we agree that water is heavier than both gasoline and ethanol? Water sinks to the bottom. Water laden ethanol sinks to the bottom. Neither burn worth crap.

So regardless of the fuel we use, we need to do everything possible to eliminate/minimize moisture infiltration in the first place.

The old tractor fuel caps with "Buy Clean Fuel - Keep It Clean" printed on them had it right. That means good filters and maintenance on all fuel supply tanks. At minimum, annual filter changes. If your filter has that little petcock on the bottom, use it. (my diesel tank has a petcock on the bottom of the tank itself. I like that)

A good pressure cap on all outdoor bulk tanks will minimize air(moisture) movement in and out. Check that little gasket on the bulk tank cap a couple times per year and replace it if is cracked, curled or won't stay seated.

IIRC, a sediment bowl gasket for a Super M works on my cap. I prefer the rubber kind, not cork. Cork can disintegrate and leave gaping holes before you know it.

Avoid use of gas cans if possible, and if you do have to use a gas can, keep it under cover out of the rain and snow.

As noted, seasonal equipment (boats, lawn mowers, weed eaters, snowblowers,chain saws, snowmobiles) should have the fuel burned/dumped out of them.

I feel safer giving them a good dose of Sea Foam on their last breath to lubricate the insides. I like Sea Foam better than Sta-Bil particularly for the lubrication, but that is just my personal preference.

As of Nov 1 my 1981 pickup and my 1978 car are parked in the shed for the winter. The pickup is full of gas and the car has about 1/4 tank. Both with a hefty dose of Sea Foam.

I'll fire both rigs up and get them out in the spring. Pickup will get used until fall again. I'll drive the car to use up what gas is in it, put in a lttle fresh with more Sea Foam and park it again. Might fire the car up in the shed a couple times in the summer just to keep the battery up is why I don't run it all out of gas.

If I expected these vehicles to be parked for a year or longer, I would treat them like a lawn mower.

 

[Hook]

I can't argue with any of that last post. It's very accurate. The only thing I'll add is that ethanol absorbs moisture more readily than gasoline. Once it does it binds with it and doesn't further separate. That's why it's an issue.
As an example, if I have to roll epoxy on a surface that's damp, I'll spray it with denatured alcohol. It's bonds with the moisture and speeds up evaporation. Ethanol is no different. It binds with the moisture but in a tank it can't evaporate because it's not exposed to air at the bottom of the tank.

 

[M5farm]

Hook our problem with the ethanol is because of our humidity. I try to burn real gas in all of my small equipment. I have pulled carbs on vehicles and lawn mowers that has set for several month and there will be a layer of black gum in the bowl from the rubber lines. I have also ran real gas for 3 weeks an e10 for 3 weeks in my truck my fuel mileage went up 2 mpg.

 

[Hook]

Hook our problem with the ethanol is because of our humidity. I try to burn real gas in all of my small equipment. I have pulled carbs on vehicles and lawn mowers that has set for several month and there will be a layer of black gum in the bowl from the rubber lines. I have also ran real gas for 3 weeks an e10 for 3 weeks in my truck my fuel mileage went up 2 mpg.

Shhhh...our climate is the same as Minnesota. Dontyaknow. And they don't have any problems at all there :hide:

 

[ibetyamissedme]

Hook our problem with the ethanol is because of our humidity. I try to burn real gas in all of my small equipment. I have pulled carbs on vehicles and lawn mowers that has set for several month and there will be a layer of black gum in the bowl from the rubber lines. I have also ran real gas for 3 weeks an e10 for 3 weeks in my truck my fuel mileage went up 2 mpg.

Do you really think 3% higher humidity is the cause?

 

[Hook]

Hook our problem with the ethanol is because of our humidity. I try to burn real gas in all of my small equipment. I have pulled carbs on vehicles and lawn mowers that has set for several month and there will be a layer of black gum in the bowl from the rubber lines. I have also ran real gas for 3 weeks an e10 for 3 weeks in my truck my fuel mileage went up 2 mpg.

Do you really think 3% higher humidity is the cause?

What is the problem then? And don't say propaganda because the science and problems are well documented

 

[ibetyamissedme]

Hook our problem with the ethanol is because of our humidity. I try to burn real gas in all of my small equipment. I have pulled carbs on vehicles and lawn mowers that has set for several month and there will be a layer of black gum in the bowl from the rubber lines. I have also ran real gas for 3 weeks an e10 for 3 weeks in my truck my fuel mileage went up 2 mpg.

Do you really think 3% higher humidity is the cause?

What is the problem then? And don't say propaganda because the science and problems are well documented

Your science and problems are well documented by the anti ethanol regime, propaganda that's all. Forced use for 25+ years, zero problems zero. Problem is you want to listen to people who think they know versus people have witnessed it's use firsthand. You will never believe what you don't want to believe simple as that. If I want to really know the truth about cattle feeding equipment I find someone with that equipment and ask them? I will never take the word of the salesman selling it nor anyone with an interest opposite of it. Not everyone understands that concept.

 

[Hook]

So if i have torn down carbs for 20 years and only started seeing the white crud in the bowls since ethanol was mandated, I must be drawing the wrong conclusion. Or does that count as personal experience.
Are you also saying that the specific gravity, which is irrefutable, is also inaccurate? Facts is facts, and one of those facts is that I don't have any financial interest in ethanol like you do

 

[M5farm]

Hook our problem with the ethanol is because of our humidity. I try to burn real gas in all of my small equipment. I have pulled carbs on vehicles and lawn mowers that has set for several month and there will be a layer of black gum in the bowl from the rubber lines. I have also ran real gas for 3 weeks an e10 for 3 weeks in my truck my fuel mileage went up 2 mpg.

Do you really think 3% higher humidity is the cause?

All I know is in the real world there is a difference in mpg and average humidity at around 79% water will collect and condensate in any container.